The Crucible:Conversations for the Curious

Hamish Niven (00:01)
Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious. I am Hamish, your host. This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life. Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is not aligned to values and purpose. You are not alone. You can get through this, promise you. Life is far more beautiful on the other side.

Ryan Watts (00:29)
And so I had this really great gift of being able to tap into creativity and this, this, this powerful energy of self discovery and sharing yourself and flow and all these words. And then I just decided I wasn't going to trust it. And I cut it off for probably about 15 years

Hamish (00:48)
Ryan and I met on LinkedIn a couple of weeks ago and we've had some really good conversations. And so I've asked him to this podcast today because he's got a great story to tell. Ryan, thanks so much for being here. Can you tell me a little bit about your story, please?

Ryan Watts (01:01)
Yeah, Hamish, I want to tell you, first of all, thank you for having me here. It's great to be with you again. And just before we started recording, we were talking about how it's funny how, you know, people on a similar journey, similar minds, similar spirits end up finding each other, even though we're continents away. I don't know, I kind of, it occurred to me that there's a little bit of magic in that. And we were just experiencing that right now. But yeah.

My story, guess.

It's hard to know where to begin, but I guess any place is as good as another. I kind of think back to this early access to creative pursuits, which is like music, right? And, you know, I really felt at an early age that this using creative energy, I could plug into things and kind of, it wasn't like it was coming from me. It was like I was some kind of vessel that was able to, you know,

not to use words that are like woo woo, but using words like woo woo, I was able to plug in some divine thing. It was just some instrument of something that was coming through me. And I think that that made me self -aware to a degree that early on might have been unusual. And I think that throughout my life, I really see that there has been this kind of

questioning of that or the value of that, you know, and I think really it's been about self -trust and self -discovery simultaneously and then just allowing life to kind of come through you. And I think just, I started talking about music and I think music early on was my first access to this. And I think I've discovered that really you can access this kind of divine

thing anywhere. And I've done that in a bunch of different ways. So I started with this music business, and I spent a lot of time writing songs. And what do you need to write songs? Well, you need pain. And so I got very good at kind of, you know, noticing pain noticing, you know, what was there was coming up and I was able to, at least early on turn that into a redemptive

You know, it was very spiritual and that the process of writing music became something negative comes in something, you know Victorious kind of comes from that and I think as you as I got older I started questioning that and I was like, yeah, there's no utility in this there isn't you know, I need to go get a job and Just kind of I remember my dad always used to say this term you need to join the working schlubs like the rest of us, you know

And he still says stuff like that, but I took it real seriously. was like, I guess that's what you're supposed to do. And so I had this really great gift of being able to tap into creativity and this, this, this powerful energy of self discovery and sharing yourself and flow and all these words. And then I just decided I wasn't going to trust it. And I cut it off for probably about 15 years until COVID

And when COVID happened, really, I was in a new town by myself here in Cincinnati, Ohio. I just moved here. had sort of, I had a relationship that had ended and I just was kind of quarantined alone in a new city by myself. And I kind of just went down this, I was like, okay, I need to, I need to kind of get back to where the first journey, right? We were headed towards this spiritual journey and we went to this very

you know, worldly, let's get let's make money. Let's do all these things. And I had recently got divorced from that. And I just ended up here in Cincinnati, and really just on this journey of self discovery that really was just a magical, magical kind of awakening, right. So I would say that's kind of the overview of my story

Hamish (05:19)
Thank you for that. I think it's really interesting, isn't it? When you, as a child, as a young person, you've got the whole world in front of you. You can see everything. You can play, you can dance, you can be creative. And we get it beaten out of ourselves for best intentions, maybe parents, school teachers, whatever. And that's tragic. But I think, I mean, there's such a theme of the people I've spoken to where they've had this intuition, this sense, this passion, creativity.

is such a theme. And yeah, no, get a proper job. Get a proper job. money, work hard, work hard to earn money, work hard to work money. And that scarcity and round it goes and we disconnect from creativity. And I think it's tragic. What made you realize you wanted to get back into it? What was that disconnect?

Ryan Watts (06:12)
I think there is always this belief that, you know, I started this habit of, okay, I just need to do this for another year and then I'll get back to kind of what I was doing before, right? But you don't realise that all these things that you're building up are structures in your life, right? you know, kind of everything you're doing now is building on something, right? So I'd be, okay, so if you work a lot, you're setting yourself up to work a lot. You know, and it's like, if

play a lot, you're setting yourself up to play a lot. And like, I was just setting myself up just to work more and more. I I just found myself buried in it. And what I was able to do is just be like, I kind of, I remained connected to the possibility of connecting with this creative energy again. And so it was kind of hope. It was kind of, you know, a memory of it. It was kind of a

I know, like I understood that it was possible. It was something I believed even though I didn't see, have that belief reflected back to me from the world.

Hamish (07:16)
So you manage to make sense of it before you burnt out, before you hit a rock bottom or anything like that.

Ryan Watts (07:22)
Yeah, I think I hit bottoms and I always say that I, it wasn't like a rock bottom. But there were certainly, there were certainly bottoms. And I think that, you know, just one of those things, I think I remember the time, so I was married for a short time. And know, humor is really big with me. I like, I like to laugh about things. And I realized now that I used humor to kind

And I think this is true with comedians, know, not that I'm a comedian, but I think you use it to hide pain. I used to tell people because they're like, wow, you're getting divorced? And I was like, yeah, it was a very successful marriage for two and a half years, you know, and they'd kind of laugh and they wouldn't ask any more

But you know, I think to honor both her and I in that, we just, didn't, there was no vision for us. It was just caught up in the moment of excitement. And you know, I think a relationship is deeper than that. It needs a deeper connection on purpose and what you're creating in the world. And I remember, it's almost embarrassing for me to admit now, but this was seven or eight years ago.

I remember thinking, well, when I was getting divorced and that was all happening, was like, well, I guess the whole world is screwed up and here I am doing everything right. And man, I'm just, I was put in a shitty situation. And that's so silly because the exact opposite was true, right? I was just so disconnected from who I really am and who I really wanted to create

the world was responding as such. And that's really become clear to me

Hamish (09:07)
I think that's remarkable. I I actually want to acknowledge you first for appreciating your ex. And, you know, there is a connection there still you respect her. So many people, you know, falls apart. I hate you. Take the children, take the money, fight, fight, fight. you know, that awareness is remarkable and I wish more people would have that compassion. So I think that is super. I really take my hat off to you for that.

And also that you had that wisdom to see how important it was to stay authentic. And that must have been quite hard because as Andy said, that mask of, I'm fine, I'm fine, is, I did it. I'm fine. Everything is all right as I was falling apart and crying inside. that's particularly that's what men do, isn't it? We have to put that face on because we're expected to.

which I think is sad, very very sad. But what has happened now then, now that you've made sense of who you were, what you were doing and what you are doing now, how has your life changed in that respect?

Ryan Watts (10:12)
It's kind of funny because the way, well, first of all, I want to say that, yeah, I acknowledge the compliment you said about not being angry with my ex -wife. But I think really what was happening was that was my way of doing it was being like, well, you can't help it. You're just screwed up like the rest of the world. And some people, the way they do that is they get real angry and they say, I'm taking the kids, I'm taking everything from you and that.

I that awareness wasn't there. And so I that was kind of my way of doing that. I just instead of just blaming her, I just blamed her as a default for being in the world. It's just to me, that sounds that sounds funny now. But but your question was what what has happened now? And I think just really an increased just such a huge growing and self awareness, you know, so there was no

I could not see my fault in the marriage, for example. I could not see, I was doing, I had kind of a checklist in my mind. I was like, we'll get a nice place to live, we'll make it so she doesn't really have to work if she doesn't want to. These are not things that she wanted. She wanted to be in the trenches with me. I just, at the end of the day, I think really what happened was is that I wasn't ready.

for that. didn't, you know, I wasn't self -assured enough. I wanted to go and in my own trench and do my own thing and do my own work. And it just, that's, that's easy. You know, it's a, no, I don't, you stay over there. That's not a relationship, you know, it just isn't. And so I think what's, what's happened is just growing awareness of that, of the story that I was telling myself about my life. And then realising that even now, you know, I work

Hamish (11:55)
Mm -hmm.

Ryan Watts (12:10)
a coach and I have a therapist just because I believe in this idea of self discovery and I don't know that you ever get to a place where you're like, okay, I'm discovered. know, but I, you know, like, like I just had, you know, I coach people, I work with people on things and I sometimes I had this great conversation with my coach the other day. And, you know, he literally said, it's funny where you can end up in these things. And he said,

I can't remember the context exactly of our conversation. goes, so you measure life in time. Life is measured in time. And I just was thinking, I just immediately like welled up. was like, yeah, I'm like, everything's based on time. Like I'm just saying, I've got to do this for so long instead of you know, acknowledging what I have and being present. And that experience of gaining that self -awareness of man, I'm just sitting here being like, okay,

Tuesday's done, Wednesday's done, check. It's just, you're not in life then. Life to you is checking things off your checklist instead of actually being there. And I've found that over and over over again. Just be there. Just show up there. Yeah, you remember the past, but the only thing that's really there is now. Even in the future, when you're there, when you get there, it's gonna be now.

So that self -awareness, you know, to just answer your question, I think just this increasing self -awareness and realizing that there isn't a place you get to. It's a continuous growing in self -awareness. There's magic in

Hamish (13:33)
I love that.

Absolutely. Yeah. I think that's so important. yeah, it is Awareness for me, awareness of who I am, what I'm doing. And that's, that is important. And it, takes slowing down, doesn't it? It takes slowing down and taking a bit more effort and being retrospective, looking at the past, but not like, God, I did that, but I did that. And what can I learn from it? So yeah, you have to look back at the past, but

lean on it as the only crutch you've got, can make new decisions. I think that's really important.

Ryan Watts (14:24)
Yeah, and I think what you said, being still like being, I can't remember the exact term, being, slowing down is what you said. And I think just one of the things I realised is that, you know, we live in a very Western culture. It's like hustle and grind and all this stuff. and that's, that's kind of silly, especially if you're trying to decide what your life is about. And one of the things during this kind of awakening that I had

I discovered yoga, which it's kind of funny because I always felt called to do yoga, but I was like, that's like a, it's a woman's thing. As a matter of fact, my father asked me, goes, are you being a yoga teacher to pick up women? know, I'm like, no, it's because, know, I never, you know, as a man, like you said, I never thought about my body. was just a tool to get worked on, right? But just, like, wow.

Now, like just before this call, you know, it's early in the morning here, I did a 45 minute yoga practice that I'm just not gonna be right that day if I don't do it. But the one thing that you really learn in doing that is that there's one method which we have to hustle and grind is go out there and get the life you want, get the things, buy, get lots of money, buy all this stuff. that's, you know, a lot of our world is set up around

But there's also something else too, where, you know, in yoga and meditation, what you're doing is you're actually creating space. You're creating a bubble around you. And then you're just kind of, okay, what's calling me? Where am I feeling pulled to? And it takes a while to be able to, you know, because then you're like, you know what? got to go text this person or I have to go do this and do, know, and you just, you know, no, no, no, I'm creating this space here. And then when you, there is a skill there, I guess.

you can feel where you're being pulled. And a lot of times, this is where you discover your kind of purpose, if you will. And it always, why do I want to say always? Because nothing's always, but it usually has to do with connecting with somebody or impacting somebody else in a way. It has to be in relationship. And I think that if we all could quiet our minds,

We find that our nature is to actually want to help other people. And that's been, that's, that's transformed because I think that's transformed the way I thought about the world. Cause I'd always be like, okay, there's, you know, when I'm looking at the world, the person who just cut me off or whatever, I would think that guy is just trying to take something, you know, he's trying to win, you know? And now I look at it like, what, what is happening to where he can't get

he or she can't get to the point where they're able to help somebody, they're able to connect because that's really what people want. That's what we want as a species, as humanity. And even the most heinous acts of, know, ignorance or violence, they're all kind of, they're all rooted in something that is removing something out of the way to be able

to impact somebody, to be able to share kind of love. And I think to me, that's my way I explain to myself is like, all you need is love. It sounds like a flowery thing, but I think that's what that's saying is that when it comes down to it, we want to help each other. And this kind of hustle and grind kind of culture and go get what you want is, it gets in the way of that. To being calm, being still and trying

Hamish (17:58)
Yep.

Ryan Watts (18:13)
just figure out where you're being pulled. You have to really, really be still to understand that. And that's just another kind of branch of self -awareness that has really impacted the journey.

Hamish (18:27)
I think that is fab, and so that's the morning practice, you always sit down and do something in the mornings or do something in the mornings.

Ryan Watts (18:34)
Yeah, no, definitely do a meditation and a yoga practice. And really that's one of the other things that in this period of kind of transformation is, know, I really, I was having a lot of trouble just at work even. I would write a to -do list and I'd get to work and work really hard and then never get to the to -do list. And I'm like, okay, I got a focus problem. And I...

read somewhere that people who are approaching 40 start having testosterone issues. So I go to the doctor. I'm like, listen, I got low testosterone. You got to check me. She's like, why do think that? Anyway, she's like, you don't have low testosterone. So she's like, go talk to a psychiatrist. And they're like, well, have the psychiatrist is like, let's take these tests. Let's talk a little bit. Well, you clearly have ADHD. And I'm like, what?

I don't know if this is just something that people have suggested to me throughout my whole life. I started began telling people in my life, I was just diagnosed with ADHD and they're like, what you didn't know? I just, know, whatever you might think about that, it was something that I was, I was shocked by. And so I realized that, you know, I, there's certain things I have to do. also run and I was doing all these things to really just organize and calm.

of the intense energy in my mind. And you I think that is, you can, you can call it a diagnosis. But basically what he was saying was that there's just, that's a, that's a, go -go -go mentality of our culture was just so implanted in there that my brain started running like that. And at that time I had to make a choice. I had to be like, am I going to continue to run like this? Or am I going to,

invest some time every day so that way I can really experience and be in my life. And most days I choose that. So I think practices like that and it doesn't have to be yoga, it doesn't have to be you know anything. It just it has to be some kind of being in touch with your life, being here now you're not concerned about the past or present. It's funny how I think of like some of the the best

memories that I have are actually just there's not much happening in the visual part of the memory, right? It's just this it's like the way the light comes in a window or something. But what's actually attached to that is this feeling of peace of being in the moment and kind of seeing like, you know, the dust dance around the light, but you're there for that moment. And it just occurred to me the reason why that's such a powerful moment is because my life

up to a certain point was filled with just such a lack of presence that those were the moments of presence in a bedroom, laying there just waking up in the morning and seeing the sun come in. I'll think about that all the time. And I was relying on those things just naturally happening. Cause we all have natural moments of presence, but you know, just like working out or something, you can train yourself to be more present. And I think there's always more to gain

Hamish (21:51)
I love that. can see that as well. can just see rolling over and just seeing the dust. I often go for walk around sunsets, especially in autumn and winter. And the other day I was just doing that, just striding along, storming away in my own head. And suddenly there was the sun coming from in front of me to one side and a whole lot of bugs. And my whole body went jump, jump into slow motion, just watching them, just fluttering around, the light catching them. Took a few photographs.

and just watch these little things. weren't fireflies, they were just translucent, so glowing. But my whole system went, thank you, slow down and listen and watch. And that delight of being present, it's, yeah, you remember it. I remember that. I'm always going to remember that. And I think it's, yeah, it's really precious, isn't it?

Ryan Watts (22:42)
Yeah, and it's, I can tell by the way you tell that story, it's profound. It was an experience. But if you go to the office and you're talking to the guys or girls at the office and you're like, I walking today and, know, I saw the light coming up over the horizon and they're like, well, that's great, Hamish, you know, we got work to do. You know, it just, doesn't fit in that context. But, you know, I think there's a general truth to

Hamish (23:03)
Mm. Yeah.

Ryan Watts (23:10)
But I think that that, again, the meaningfulness in that was, it ran deep.

Hamish (23:16)
I want to go back a little bit to your diagnosis of ADHD. I was listening to some stuff on TikTok the other day and for some reason I following this bloke and he was saying that it's just a hyper creativity. Your brain is always creating, wanting to create. I mean, he says that, someone else says that, someone else says we're all hunter gatherers and we're the hunters. We haven't got ADHD of the gatherers. mean, there's all sorts of theories

I really like that fact that the child is curious and wants to create and wants to do and wants to be. I mean, you summed that up at the beginning. You were creative doing the music in tune, tapping in and had it removed from your life. I just wonder whether that, what you think about your experience from that, because it's quite interesting. So many people I've spoken to, particularly people coming off addiction.

found out they were using their drug, drink, eating as a coping strategy, a self -medicating. I certainly was because this thing was doing it at the moment. And I'm finding the meditating and a slow walk help exactly what you said. So everything you said, you know, I'm a few days behind your awareness there. So I'd love to hear a little bit of

So I'd love to hear a little bit more about your thoughts around ADHD, whether you've been diagnosed or not isn't really important, I don't

Ryan Watts (24:51)
Yeah. Yeah. I, again, I don't, I don't think it is either. And that's, so a couple of things, you know, I had a big background in psychology, but I think when I got diagnosed, it's like, okay, well, now what, what do I do? So I think that's where I kind of got into coaching was a little bit more future focused, and it really helped with that. So that's kind of one distinction there. I love what you said there about ADHD being like, you know,

brain creatively going into overload. You know, and I think there's, I've never, I've never looked at it that way. And I love the way that is because one of the things I realised is that that's my, my, that's what I love is creation. mean, that what we're doing right now is we're, creating, you know, and that's, even, even where there isn't anything to create, I'm looking for a way to create it. So I think there's a lot, a lot to that. And I think that,

you know, these practices of meditation, just like any kind of energy, right? If you've got, you know, I think of like a hose, you know, if you've got a hose that just has an open round, you know, if you put your thumb over half of it, you focus the energy of it. So I think that's why, you know, I feel called the meditation in yoga, because I find if I calm that stuff down, it focuses the energy into something that could be more meaningful. And

When I say meaningful, guess I mean impactful, you know, because if I'm just shooting water shooting energy everywhere, you know, it just it doesn't It doesn't have an intent right? So you're putting intent behind it just kind of focusing into something and I think Yeah, so I really like what you said about the creative energy there. I think that that is that is probably true. I think And I think it does tie into

I kind of came across this because you and I have talked about alcoholism and addiction. And really what we know now about that is that people need to do things to regulate their emotions. So some of us are naturally, we can just think ourselves into being calm. And some of us, we need to do something drastic to calm ourselves down.

And it's not good or bad. Some of us are just really high highs, really low lows. And we're trying to mitigate that journey between the two gaps. And I think I see people, I used to think of people because alcoholism runs in my family and I never was really subject to that. But I had a lot of harsh judgments. And I started realizing as I got older and I understood what was actually happening with them is that they were really desperately trying to, like you said,

regulate, like turn down the thoughts, turn down the feelings. And that's just the same as, as, as what I was trying to do with music or art or whatever. And there are probably times in there where I used alcohol in the same way. I really just think that I, as much as I loved beer, I think I was a little bit allergic to it. But anyway, that's it. That's another story. But I really realize now

we're all trying to do that to some degree. have to regulate ourselves. We just don't want to be subject to, we want to, we need to have some control. And I think also too, there's something to be said about, you know, I can't remember who it was off the top of my head, but we said there's three primal drives, right? The drive to be safe, the drive to eat, the drive to procreate. Well, this certain scientist, which I can't remember who it was, he said there's actually a fourth,

Drive to he believes is equal and that is the drive to alter your consciousness and so we do that through you know, really what we're able to Project our consciousness forward and be like I want to do this. I want to go on this journey here Dogs don't do that, you know, they're like, we hungry my foods over here, know, we we are able to kind of imagine the future that is consciousness being you know kind of adjusted modified

And so we've, some of us really get a lot of value from that. So the whole process of, you know, take drinking alcohol or even smoking cigarettes or smoking marijuana that alters your consciousness. And so this person is saying, listen, that is a, that's a primal drive. So some people eat food that alters your consciousness. Some people exercise it alters your consciousness, but what we're able to do with that altering of consciousness is better understand ourselves.

is better strategise survival and fulfillment. And so there's a lot there. There's a lot there with that. And I think it totally changed the way I think about addiction. It totally changed the way I think about just the way that we regulate. Because I'd see people, I smoked for years. I started smoking when I was like 12. And I looking back now, even when I was younger, had

anxiety so I would hide behind the school and be smoking a cigarette but it would kind of calm me down and I'll see people smoking now and my first thought is that person should quit but I realised that is their choice to kind of regulate themselves so the judgments kind of gone away there if you

Hamish (30:28)
we're just trying to keep ourselves safe, aren't Exactly. One of those three plus one, one of those four things, just trying to keep ourselves safe. And that's everything from lashing out, from being reactive, from being passive, from being the victim, from isolating, from eating to hide in full sight, from drinking. I sometimes wonder how humanity keeps on going because we're so self -destructive. But obviously

Third one, procreating is very strong.

Ryan Watts (30:59)
Yeah, it is too. And here's so here's something else that I learned because I just had. Well, 15 months ago, I had twin boys. And so I was talking about another journey. I was the oldest of six and we were very close in age. And I was just, you know, take your brothers here, you have to do this. So I walked around for 20 years being like, I'm not having children. That's another story. But I had these two children who they they cannot fend for themselves, right? They when they're born.

And they still can't. I realized it really changed. This changed the way I thought about humanity because yeah, the drive to procreate is enormous, right? And that, that at least starts the process, right? Of, keeping humanity going. But it takes such care and patience and, and love to, you know, keep children safe, and fed and alive that it just changed the way I thought

humanity. It's got to be, of course, we have people on the edges who don't personal by those things. you know, and there's, there's problems, there's unheard of things we will, we could talk about there. But for the most part, look, there's going to be 9 billion of us pretty soon on the earth, right? And, and this is because of such a natural predilection to want to take care of each

So that's what I hear when you say that, you know, hey, how does humanity survive? It's because that's our natural instinct is to take care of each

Hamish (32:33)
I love that. The energy of this conversation is going round and round and that, you know, the fact that we are, and I agree with you and a lot of people think, you know, humanity is awful and la la la, but there is, you know, love is overpoweringly wonderful. And yes, it's scary, but, you know, I haven't had kids, so congratulations and good luck in equal measure.

Ryan Watts (32:59)
Yeah

Hamish (33:00)
But yeah, mean, you've explained that to me and obviously my brother and sister have, you know, they've chosen to have children and that sense of self and I've got to do this. Suddenly you have to bring this little life alive and look after every waking and sleeping moment. that's hard. But also you said it's changed your perspective completely. And I just think that's something I will never experience.

And I'm not, trust me, it'll be a miracle. It will be a miracle or a word with a surgeon. yeah.

Ryan Watts (33:27)
Never say never.

I think that, you know, I agree with everything you said there, except there's one piece and they're like, and I don't want to speak for all parents, but the thing that I found was it was not, this is the thing that really moved me. It's not as hard as I thought. I thought it would be very difficult to have the children, you know, they will, test your patience and, but that's okay.

You know, it's like you just, you kind of work your way through it. it, it's so funny because I remember looking in the mirror right before we were going, there were twins. So they, we had them naturally in the operating room, but just in case there was problems, go to the operating room. So they're like, all right, dad, get ready. And I remember I was like, so nervous. I was like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And it's the most natural thing in the world. It's just like, yeah, we've been doing this for literally thousands of years, you know.

And just what happens to you like this, you know, I slept in the most uncomfortable chair for the first night and got up every 20 minutes just to kind of make sure they're okay. And it's, you know, it's just natural. It's just like, you know, when you when you learn how to walk, you just it's difficult first, right, or whatever, but you you enjoy the the progress you enjoy walking then, you know, and it's just another very fascinating, you know,

facet of life. That's just, it's interesting. It's, yeah, there's, I would be like, yeah, I haven't slept in three days or whatever, you know, but it wasn't as difficult as if I was, you know, studying for three days or whatever, like I might have been in school or what have you. So, yeah, just such an interesting experience. But it really has, you know, I think that we kind of have this nervous system that's set up, you know, and we've got fight or flight.

And we've got, you know, this kind of rest and digest and, you know, care and relaxation. I think if you look at those as two separate lenses, you can see what they project into the world. Right. So you've got violence comes from this, you know, this fight or flight. You know, it's part of all of us. Right. But I think when you see violence in the world, it's because it's based in fear. Right. And then you've also got this other lens, which is like rest and digest and,

Care for your your young ones and all that net that that comes from a place of peace. So it's like which which Which lens are you feeding? Right? So if you're just going to you know, hustle and grind hustle and grind that's going to project a lot of violence out into the world right it whereas with if you're going to create space and growth and nurture things you're gonna have a different perspective of the world, so

I don't know how I got there, Hamish, but yeah.

Hamish (36:37)
That's actually really interesting because you've opened up another question there because how do we, when we find ourselves in that negative, the angry, it's also protective, also a masculine energy, it's not all negative, but how do you step back into the other side where your sympathetic system is not fight or flight, you're able to calm down?

How would I move across to that when I become aware of

Ryan Watts (37:08)
Yeah, I think the key part of your question is when you become aware of it. Because, you know, we know now because the brain is, you know, actually your amygdala, which controls those responses initially, is reacting before you're conscious of anything. Okay, I think we know that now. So a lot of times when you're in that fight or flight mode, you're not aware of it when you enter it. Yeah. So I think, you know, that's kind of the survival brain kind of taking over, right? It's where

Hamish (37:12)
Yeah.

Ryan Watts (37:37)
anxiety comes from because we evolved, if you will, into a world where we're always worried about the tiger that's over the hill. So we're kind of like a little bit like nervous, right? And so you can train your brain to completely bypass that. That's too far. That's a bridge too far, if you will. can think of, there's the famous picture of, on the extreme side of things, of that monk.

who in protest of the Vietnam War, you know, covered themselves in gas and there was no sound, no movement, no nothing. And so we can assume, we'll never know for sure, that he was so far to this, you know, being disconnected from, or just, you know, being able to separate himself from his body, his bodily sensations that, you know, he wasn't able to react or, you know, there was no reaction to this terrible pain that he was going through, right?

That's, that's an extreme example. On the other side, you've got, you know, people who just are, you know, they're fearful of other people. They're, you know, kind of, everybody's kind of out to get you type thing. if, you know, our brain is also, if we're looking for what we're wanting to find, so we can literally find evidence for whatever it is. So again, that goes for what I'm saying here too. So, you know, that's why there's

hey, this is the way it is because we're all dealing with kind of our perception and these things are in there. So the number one thing, once you realize you're in there, Andrew Huberman, is a, he's a neurologist at Stanford. He has a great podcast and I've learned a lot from him, but he has this, there's one breathing technique that is shown to move you from your

fight or flight to your rest and digest very quickly. And that's called the physiological sigh. And if you I'll demonstrate it here, but if you think about it, this looks like children when they're trying to when you know, they're really upset, and they start calming themselves down, they start doing this, it's like, you know, you'll see children going like that. And what they're actually doing is they're that's their body's natural response to move from fight or flight to rest and digest, right? So you've got

If I catch myself moving in that, it could be just sometimes it's for no reason at all. You know, you see somebody who, when you're walking in the grocery store or the market and you see somebody that is threatening to you and all of a sudden you're like thinking, like, oh, I'll inhale about 95%. And then, and you do that five times and it starts switching over. And I

That's one way to really access it right away in the moment. And I think things like meditation and yoga and martial arts and mindfulness activities, what you're trying to do is you're trying to, a simplified way to say it is really kind of switch tracks, right? You're saying, it's okay. We're okay, we're gonna move over to this rest and digest part of our nervous system. And it takes time.

Take practice.

Hamish (40:58)
I love that about the children because I can just see kids doing that. They're crying, they're screaming and they're calming down. And you probably see that with your two quite often. I can watch it and I can feel my whole body as they're doing it. mean, a parent, like, thank God they're finally calming down. So it calms the parent down as well. But really, really interesting. It is, isn't it? It It's slowing down, becoming aware and

Ryan Watts (41:07)
Yeah.

Yeah,

Hamish (41:25)
and being intentional, realising that, something's not happening. So you're learning to feel your body as well, aren't you? Feel that tightness in your chest when the anxiety comes.

Yeah, love it.

Ryan Watts (41:36)
Yeah, and then you just, you you start kind of making a list if you are what are the things that happen like tightening of the chest is a good one or one of the things I realized is when I was, you know, starting to get stressed out, I would breathe really shallow, I'd be like, you know, I mean, not maybe a little quicker. But I noticed that all the time now. And it's like, okay, you know, let's deepen, deepen our breath. And then, you know, that can be

such a powerful signal and it's different for all of us. Sometimes it's like tightening in my shoulders or sometimes it's just like making fists. I'll realize that I'm doing it. I'm like, what's going on here? You know, and just learning how to notice those things. And it's not, again, it's a practice. It's not something you're like, Hey, I get there. can, I can hit the switch whenever I want to, because what happens in this practice is you keep getting, is this kind of your brain's job. You keep getting tricked. You're like, wait, that's not scary. I can't believe they got me. I can't believe I got upset over

You know, and so it's interesting, that's, you know, kind of back to our topic of like self regulation. A lot of that is when you talk about addiction and things like that, that's what's happening to us is that that's the easiest thing to do is to have have the drink or whatever it is, you know, or to take the drug. And that is

I mean, as a matter of fact, there's some genius to that because it's so efficient, right? So you can't be, you know, you can't say that anybody who's an addict is not intelligent. That's not the truth. It's just, wow, I'm having this experience. And that's what your brain does. It puts you in fight or flight, which is like really anxious, really, you know, it doesn't feel good to be there. And the easiest thing to do is to go back and to say, okay, I'm going to have that drink or whatever, whatever it is. And that's going to immediately switch you back over. It's just the cost of

over time is a great cost to

Hamish (43:35)
You've nailed it on the head when it comes to my understanding of addiction. Because I was, I found a way to make sense of what I didn't understand. I couldn't have conversations. I had certain beliefs that were incongruent to who I was. Flipping brilliant. It works. It works. This works. For eating works. It all works. But as you said, it's that crutch. It gets old and it breaks.

I told my doctor recently I had to check up for something and I said I used to drink and he said that's not very healthy. I said it kept me alive. I said that was the tool that stopped me killing myself or going mad or whatever. He just did not understand that at all. So he'd obviously never had that addiction experience. which I'm grateful for. But that realisation when I had it, was that kept me alive. That's taken all the guilt out. I don't feel guilty for being an alcoholic or for when I was.

Because it kept me alive going right back to what we said earlier. It kept me alive. It kept me feel safe. So that realization that you've just told me is so important in anything you realize that well I was keeping myself safe and that's good enough now I know a bit better I don't need to do that or I can look to change I can go that breathing or whatever. Yeah, I think that is spectacular important belief

spot and embrace.

Ryan Watts (45:00)
Yeah, I really appreciate acknowledging your experience with that. And I think that's the thing that is probably, if there was something I think for myself to worry about kind of humanity moving forward is that we have kind of an allegory for what we just talked about. We have all these quick fixes now, which they, you know, we talked about the cell phone and we talked about, think one of the growing epidemics out there is

porn because it does that same thing to the way the male brain is kind of accessed, right? It hits all those addictive things and it's a way that people are regulating themselves, right? And not just porn. We're talking about, we could talk about just social media in general because if you think about it, what the phone is doing is it's accessing your kind of your dopamine networks, right? So you're just, you're activated.

And it helps you kind of, we feel like not necessarily energized, but we're on a quest when we've got dopamine happening, right? Which is like a lot of what happens with addiction is that you're driven. Some addictions, it all has to do with dopamine or driving us in a certain area or towards a certain behavior. But our phones do that too. So what happens when, you know, we're all hacked into our computer and we're going to be like, you know what, want the, right.

It's all about kind of pleasure, right? So how do I, how do I immediately access this? You know, you'll probably be able to at some point in time, hit a button on your computer, a program and be like, okay, now I'm intoxicated. You know, like it'll just cause your brain to release what happens when you're intoxicated or, or what have you. And there's, know, there's some promise in that and I'm sure it'll be announced. Be like, you know, Hey, if you're feeling depressed, you know, download this app and it'll be like some kind of thing that's plugged in into you. you're

I feel better. But you know, how good is that? What do we have to, what do we have to change in order to, because there's some something to be said about agency, right? I mean, what about about the investment that goes in the front hand of that? I mean, I don't want to speak for you. But one of the things that makes your recovery so valuable was the journey of doing it,

Whereas if you were just like, okay, I'm suffering from addiction. I downloaded this app. Okay, it's gone It changes the meaning of things for us. And if we think about it, we're there in a lot of ways Whereas before if you wanted to pay a bill you had to sit down and write a check and then you know address the envelope, know, put a mail put a stamp on it put it in the mailbox and now you do it while you're driving and you know, and we call that we call that convenience too, but

there is kind of a, when we start getting into the real fundamental things, what, you know, there's a lot of power there. And so what, what is the right balance of agency and convenience and, you know, self determination and, and what should determine that, you know, so those are, those are the things that kind of concern me. But I think that there is definitely right now, I, I, I get caught by it all the time. I'm like, my

I talk to people about not doing this and here I am on Instagram mindlessly scrolling, but it's that same thing. It's designed to be this kind of activator that activates us just like an addiction is. And it regulates us too because all of those things kind of work together. So it's interesting to see what, you know, how this kind of things will progress on this

Hamish (48:46)
I think that's a really scary thought, but you're, I completely agree. it is, isn't it? You're, giving your agency away. If you're going to quick fix, you're not learning from it. you know, there's, there's various drugs you can take to inhibit the alcohol makes you sick and things like that. It works for some people. I guess it does. I think it's still, I think it's still prevention rather than cure. You've, you've got to, I think you've got to make sense of it. At some stage, you've got to take your own agency

and go, yeah, that's not working. Otherwise, well, you don't have to, I suppose it's choice. But if you want to thrive, if you want to flourish, if you want to make sense of life, I think you've got to have that agency back. And as you said, the phone is a great way to give it back, to lose your agency.

Ryan Watts (49:31)
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's why kind of it's become, I thought about this a lot and kind of my mission, I guess the way I stated is to kind of elevate human consciousness, right? What role can I play in that? And I think, you know, regardless of your religious beliefs or your, you know, not getting into that territory at all, just there's part of us that is very animalistic.

There's part of us that we have those primal drives, but there's also the part of Ryan right now that is talking to Hamish. This is not a primal drive. We call it consciousness or whatever. I think that the solution here is, like we said, create this gap between our connection to our attachment to our physiology and our experience of the

and kind of like our consciousness. I think, you know, in my view, that's what a lot of the religious texts are really telling us to do in the world. Now, I said I wouldn't tread onto religious beliefs and I just did there. So that's, that's my belief. But I think that either no matter how you cut it, I think that is, that's really what needs what we need to be thinking about is how are we, you know, how is our

the uniqueness, whatever this consciousness is, whether it's, you know, there's theories out there that the way our brains are set up run at a certain Hertz, you know, frequency, which causes us to be conscious of ourselves. And what does that actually mean? but I think we all understand the specialness of it. And I think to be able to elevate that, to be able to be, you know, not subject to our nervous system as much, and have the right balance

know, disattachment or detachment and, you know, in connection, you know, I think that's, that's really the equation that humanity is trying to, to, to solve. you know, so I just, the headline I put on that is how do we elevate consciousness? Maybe it's a, you know, how do we appropriately position it in the horizon is a better way to say it, but, you know, it doesn't feel as right. But I think that's, I think that's something

we're beginning to, I think as a species, we're beginning to kind of what does this mean? And there are people out there, regardless of what you think of them, they're thinking about, well, consciousness needs to go into computers or consciousness, we need to think about going to other planets or whatever. These are all very external manifestations of this. But I think it's a very personal, like kind of internal issue that we've got to deal with. How do we balance

you know, our consciousness with what's happening with our body, you know, and that's not just our body, our experience of that and our beliefs about what's going to happen here. There's just a, there's a lot there to ponder.

Hamish (52:35)
There is isn't there. Eastern philosophy has been doing for thousands and thousands of years. You know, look at the yin and the yang, that balance, you've said balance several times in that conversation there. And it is, yeah. I mean, what is consciousness? You know, we can go down a rabbit hole or wormhole there, isn't it? But it's, it is because, you know, this is my body, the cells change. you know, if this is me and all the cells have changed, when was I Hamish or when will I be? You know, it's...

Ryan Watts (52:43)
Yeah.

Hamish (53:03)
It's a bit cuckoo. You know, I'm more than my experiences. I'm not my emotions and feeling. Thank God for that. Certainly during addiction, I'm very glad that those were not true. They felt it. That's another story. So that detachment that you mentioned, explain that to me because I've met this recently and I'm wrapping my head around it and I just got a treat. I don't quite follow

Ryan Watts (53:11)
I knew it.

Hamish (53:30)
how much detachment because in addiction I was too too disattached.

Ryan Watts (53:35)
Yeah, I think.

So it's something that I think really needs to be discovered because when I started meditating, think I followed Sam Harris, which he has an app called Waking Up. And I've probably been part of that app for like five years. And it's really powerful. I when you look at all the different apps that are out there, I use a couple of them, but Waking Up is kind of my central one.

And the thing that kind of, again, it's really hard to describe an experience, right? We're kind of describing the dust and the, you know, the swirling and the light kind of type thing. But I think that's at least a, you know, headline that kind of points people in the right direction. And I think what it really is is it really is kind of understanding what we mean when we say our, ourself. And so Sam Harris used to have

This is going be very difficult to explain. So this might just be, you know, not even worth it, but we'll give it a shot. used to, so doing this meditation and then Sam Harris would say, you know, he kind of guide you through it. So I'm sitting there, you know, meditating, but you you having these intrusive thoughts and all that stuff is happening. And you're just kind of, you know, it's this process of, I've got to pay, I've got to pay my bills. Okay. Step back. That's okay. Let that, let that go. Okay. Now my shoulder hurts. Okay. Step back and let that go.

That's kind of creating the space. But then he says, you know, just for a second now, look for who's And I'm like, what? We look for who's looking. mean, first of all, was like, my eyes are closed. Second of all, who's, you know, like externally, but then, you know, and so I would have these moments of frustration and then I, you know, would be like, okay, let's, let's step back from the frustration. Let's not let frust, let's not get wrapped up in the thought of frustration.

And I think this is the process of creating that space and you're doing it like a micro millimeter at a time, right? And then, and then it contracts and you're like, okay, now I'm comfortable doing this. And I think that it's, it's just so, I think one of the things that Victor Frankl said, Victor Frankl is, you know, famously this psychologist who basically, you know, he watched his

most of his family be killed during the Holocaust. he said that there's a space between stimulus and response. In that space is where you find your freedom. that kind of, I think people had glimpsed that. So it was enough to kind of hop on the zeitgeist for the times, if you will. But I think now there's really a lot there and you're just creating that space.

And I think that's, talked about agency, we talked about choice. and I think what happened was, is that in addiction, I don't know, I'm making an assertion now. So you tell me your experience with it, but I think sometimes when we do the very, aggressive regulations like alcohol is, know, we're, we're giving away the ability to choose whether we're going to be connected or not. You know,

You're just saying, okay, yeah, just cut it. can't deal with it anymore. of saying, okay, I'm going to create some space here because that takes, that takes work. It takes effort, but if you do, you you, you smoke a cigarette, you do a line of code, you, you know, have a drink shot or whatever you are, you know, you're saying with your action, okay, I'm just going to cut off that, that connection. And so I think really it is kind of a, it's kind of an exercise of how attached am I going to be to what's happening?

And that's where it's up to the individual because you certainly can do things. even my brother describes his experience, my brother who's, well, he describes his experience of having morphine. He was experiencing severe pain and they gave him morphine and he was like, for me it was like speed. I was like, okay, let's go.

And he started getting up and pulling the IV and they're like, no, no, you can't, you're like in tremendous pain, like, but it disconnected him from his body. Right. And so there's, there's a danger when you do that too, because, know, there's that, I've heard a story about people who had like a broken leg and then they get up once they get morphine and their, you know, their leg is, then becoming a compound fracture because they can't feel it. Right. So there's, there is, you know, it speaks to the utility of pain, so to

So that's the danger in those quick kind of fixes, right? Because you don't understand what you're actually, you you don't understand that you're just disconnecting. And I think a lot of things are like that. So there's, you know, in our lives, the stories that we tell ourselves play a part in that. Interesting when I remember there was a show that was really big here in the US called Mad Men. And

had this experience where it's about this executive who's in the 1950s and 60s and he's your quintessential like womanizer. You know, he's married and has kids, you know, all these other women on the side and he's, you know, speaks down to everybody at work and just dominates everything. And it was this, you know, big powerful man. And there was one episode I remember I was watching. knew there was some kind of emotional resonance happening, but he talks about

He's like, it was like an outro of an episode and he says, I'm, I feel like I can see my life. It's right there. And I'm scratching and I'm pulling it. I'm trying to get into it. And no matter what I do, I can't get into it. And I remember I just kind of welled over an emotion, but he, you know, he had set his life up to really cut himself off from his kind of self,

And so there's all kinds of different barriers that we can put in front of ourselves. and those quick fixes, you know, if they're not done intentionally, if they're done through, through drugs or kind of building up this story about power and prestige, you know, they cut us off from something. And, I think really, you know, the question that we're asking is, you know, what, yeah, it is difficult, but it's gotta be kind of your own journey. And I really think,

That's part of what I'm exploring now personally and what I'm interested in, you know, as far as interacting with other people.

Hamish (1:00:26)
You have given me an unbelievable amount of clarity and helped me join so many dots there. Because it is, it is, it is choice. It's that, as you said, it's that tiny little space that I would just fill with booze. So it was always, there was always one option. It was always react, drink, react, drink, numb, hide, shame, whatever. But when I took the drink away,

Ryan Watts (1:00:32)
wow, okay.

Hamish (1:00:51)
I had that little horrible space where it was all this fear and stuff which I didn't understand but none of it killed me. None of it was what this thing was saying. It will kill you. It'll destroy you. La la la. And so I could then choose the drink or choose to go that is really frightening but it didn't kill me. It didn't hurt me. It allowed me to be authentic. And Trigger is exactly the same. Trigger, thump, hate you, violence, whatever. Trigger, I actually want

Ryan Watts (1:01:03)
Yeah.

Hamish (1:01:20)
I want that reaction. I want that outcome. I want to be nice. I don't want to hurt my friend when they say something to upset me. I've got that choice. so what you've said, by stepping back, you're allowing yourself to see that choice before you fly off the handle. And that's it. And you've really cleared something up for me there that makes so much sense. Yeah, be the observer, isn't it? Yeah, be the observer. Yeah.

Ryan Watts (1:01:42)
Cool. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. you know, I've been working, one of the things I noticed, you know, as I do work as a coach is that, you know, people will have certain, we rely on things. So I think there's something else that you kind of revealed there, which I'm kind of pointing to that we rely on things to give us energy or give us motivation. And sometimes it's fear.

We're like, I need to have a place to live, so I'm going to get a job that pays X amount so I can live. Sometimes that can show up as a fearful thing. Whereas you're like, whoa, all these things I don't want to deal with over here. That's giving you energy to run towards this quick solution. And so I think one of the things that this suggests is like, what do you...

what would it be like to use something like positive for the fuel, right? Instead of it's like anxiety or stress or, you know, it's, it's weird to be like, if I'm going to live from like joy at the center, things show up very differently, right? So you've got, you know, if you're worried about paying your bills, you know, you're going to be like, I need more money. There's never enough money. You're always focused on it. But if you're living from joy, then it's like, I don't have enough money to pay this bill today or this, this month. But

My kids are awesome. And I just, you I didn't think I'd live this long. And wow, there's the dust twirling and the, you know, that's like a place of joy. So it's like what, a lot of people, they step into that for a moment and it's so disorienting because they're like, how do I, how do I, I only know how to work from anxiety or fear or whatever. Cause those are very powerful energy givers, if you will, you know? And so,

You, we talked about agency, we talked about choice. And to me, that is, all about intentionality then at that point in time, you have to kind of, you have to be really intentional about doing everything. Otherwise, you know, you just end up looking like you're, you know, stone, you know, like, you know, swaying in the breeze, you know, because life is good. I'm coming from joy, but you've got to be able to have to intentionally take the action there. So,

I hope I did a good job of saying, pointing out how that connects here. But really, think that we, we, there is, when we think about our nervous system or fight or flight, there is some things that come from that, that do a lot of good for us in life. They, they, they propel us to, you know, great heights. And I think where the balance comes in is choosing when you want to, that's, that's kind of what I work with as far as in coaching is that people are like, okay, that's not serving me anymore. I needed a new fuel

But so if it's joy, it's, you what is that? And then how do I navigate that? Because life is completely different when you switch fuel sources, right? And the tendency is to go back to fear or go back to the stress. And that's why a lot of us find ourselves in this cycle of like, life is good. life is bad. You know, so in my self

Hamish (1:04:59)
Mm. Yep. I love that. And I think one of the reasons to validate why people fall back is because that's familiar. I'm familiar with being hit by my husband because my father hit me when I was a child. I'm familiar with being downtrodden because my dad was assertive. I'm familiar with being walked over because of this. And that familiarity is really, you're safe.

You might be unsafe with the external bit, you understand it. You know how to deal within that space. So it's not unreasonable to go back there because it's, as I said, you're safe, but you've got no agency. You're not able to grow and nourish yourself and find better sources because that safety, that anxiety. So how do you encourage people

step out of that space because that's when the magic is when you you take that step into that uncertainty.

Ryan Watts (1:06:02)
I think that there's just, you have to keep pointing back to, because it's funny when I hear people, when I'm coaching people, I mean, really, you know, it's kind of structured in the way I coach people is I kind of, I don't bring anything of my own into it. I just kind of ask questions about curiosity and you know, it's really powerful when they hear themselves say it. So, you know, I'll hear them saying over and over again, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, I just, I'm good with anxiety and fear.

That's what I want to do." And it's like, okay, but we're talking about how you don't like anxiety and fear. And they're like, yeah, you're right. And I mean, that's kind of what it is, is that they have to experience that from every different angle. So maybe in this domain, maybe this domain, maybe at this time of day. And you start realizing, and you really start kind of realizing that it is some work. And it's the reason why everybody isn't walking around joyful and really impacting the world in the way they want to is because

It is work. constantly have to be like, it's so much easy. know, if you take procrastination, for example, people, they know this people procrastinate because when it's like, shit, I gotta get this done. There's energy there. Whereas it's like, I'm going to do a little bit today, a little bit tomorrow. It's kind of like, but the same thing with the way we live our lives. It's like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, see my boss as the enemy who's constantly putting pressure on

and not an ally, and then that's what motivates them. know, whereas if they're like, it's hard to kind of, then you're responsible and you're intentional for everything, which is kind of, a lot of us have a hard time facing that. It's like a lot of, you know, responsibility can seem overwhelming. So really, it's just a constant revisiting of, okay, yeah, so we're kind of going back to this idea of fear and, you know, anxiety.

kind of being the energy that fuels our life. Okay. that's, that's not what you want to do anymore. You wanted to kind of have, you know, passion or impact that, that center, you know? And so, what's that look like? And then they have, they're forced to answer the question. So they have to think about it and like, wow. And they just start putting together the pieces of how they have to change because it feels different. And like you said, it's so comfortable if you're used to anxiety or used to fear.

You just, that's an instant energy source, right? You're just like, okay, here it is. Because we want, we're efficient. We want to be efficient. And so we just, we'll do those things that get the result. Whereas, you know, what you and I have talked about and perhaps discovered is that being like, Whoa, slow down. And what, what is, what is my intention here? And that's really putting that space between stimulus and response and starting to discover what our balance is between

our attachment to our body and the world and, and, yeah, all those things, it's, it's about like intentionality. And so I think just revisiting that, yeah, I'm using the, I'm using the turbo energy instead of the energy that I want to use, which is a slower burn, but a more consistent longer

Hamish (1:09:22)
Fabulous. think you have given me an awful lot to think about. You've given my listeners an awful lot to think about. So thank you. Yeah, I think that was really, really interesting. It is. It's agency, taking responsibility for yourself. That horrible word responsibility and the even worse one, accountability. Yeah.

Ryan Watts (1:09:44)
Yeah.

Hamish (1:09:45)
Ryan, thank you. Where can people find out how to get a slow fix from you? Because I'm pretty sure you don't give them quick fixes.

Ryan Watts (1:09:52)
Hahaha

Yeah, well, of course there is my website, is RyanWattsLifeCoaching .com. there's a, if you're signing up for the email list there, you can get something I think is a great kind of window into the things that we've talked about. And I kind of, there's lots of different tools, lots of different ways to access what we've talked about. But I think emotional IQ is a good one. That's Daniel Goleman. So there's kind

five dimensions of that. And there always seems to be one that really rings true with somebody. instance, for me, it was self -regulation. And how am I regulating my highs and lows? What am I doing to do that? And how is that kind of impacting my success as I see it in my life? So you can get that at ryanwatzlifecoaching .com. I also have a podcast, which is the personal success podcast. So you can find that on any platform out

And I'd love to hear from anybody regarding any questions that we talked about. We kind of scratched the surface on a lot of things.

Hamish (1:11:00)
We did. And he's also on LinkedIn. I can vouch for that because that's where we met each other.

Ryan Watts (1:11:04)
yeah. Yeah. And the link to that is on my website. I'm not sure what the URL is off the top of my head.

Hamish (1:11:10)
Now, Ryan, thank you and thank you for all that information that you have on your website for people to tap into a bit more detail what we talked about. This really has been a fabulous conversation.

Ryan Watts (1:11:21)
Well, thank you. for a minute there, I forgot that we were having, we were recording a podcast and just was talking with you. So think that's a, that's a sign of the quality of conversation that we're having. So thank

Hamish (1:11:33)
No, that's really good. Thank you. And last question. What is your superpower that you got from making sense of your changes and your awakening?

Ryan Watts (1:11:41)
That's great question. That's a fantastic question. I think really what the answer to that question is, is that I've explained this to myself in finding my...

What's the word? can't. The center point. This has to do with the Big Bang. What is the single point in the? I swear I use this term. The singularity, yes. Finding the singularity. I think what I have, the way I've experienced it is every day I kind of, I have mission statements and all these value statements and things like that. But I take time.

in the practice every day, my morning routine, meditation, yoga, whatever it takes. Sometimes it's just sitting there for a moment and I get back to that singularity, know, and kind of leave the space open to just see where I'm being called, where I'm being pulled. And I think that that is really, that's a superpower for me because it keeps me kind of connected and plugged into that, that energy, that creative energy of the universe, if you will.

And it really is about opening up space to allow it to come in. And I call that the singularity because it then creates the big bang of how you show up in the

Hamish (1:13:12)
I absolutely love that. Look into the singularity and make that big bang. Brilliant. Ryan, thank you ever so much for today. I have enjoyed it. I'm glad you got up early this morning for this. I really, really appreciate it.

Ryan Watts (1:13:21)
Thank

Yeah, absolutely. It was my pleasure. So I hope we get to talk again.

Hamish (1:13:30)
We definitely will. We've just touched on an awful lot of things. So yeah, absolutely. Brilliant. Thank you very

Ryan Watts (1:13:33)
Yeah, great. Thank you, Hamish.

Hamish Niven (1:13:39)
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious. If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for their own journey. I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast platform as well, that helps me reach more people. All the important links and information are in the show notes below. Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.