The Crucible:Conversations for the Curious

Hamish Niven (00:01)
Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious. I am Hamish, your host. This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life. Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is not aligned to values and purpose. You are not alone. You can get through this, promise you. Life is far more beautiful on the other side.

Hamish (00:29)
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Crucible Conversations for the Curious. I'm here with Al today and he's all the way from just outside of Salt Lake City. We met on Facebook a couple of weeks ago as I tend to do regularly meeting people from all walks of life and we got chatting and he's got a remarkable story to tell. So Al, thank you so much for turning up for us today.

Al Richards (00:51)
Absolutely. Thank you Hamish for inviting me. It's an honor. Thank you.

Hamish (00:54)
Cool. Can you tell me a little bit about your story and how you got to where you are now?

Al Richards (00:59)
Wow, I got a long version and a not so long version so we'll stay with that one so we can stay within the time time frame here, you know, I Grew up pretty much like a normal kid Grew up in a little city, which is not little anymore called West Jordan just outside of Salt Lake City as you said Had a great time growing up a lot of farmland here spent a lot of time out in the field shooting my bow my BB gun just having

having a good time like a little Tom Sawyer, know, just running amok, having a great time and I ended up graduating from high school in 81 and started working construction. And when you start working construction, there's a lot of partying. And so I partied here and there. It wasn't something that was like a must or you needed to do, but it was just intermediate, just here and there and every once in a while. Anyway, long story short again, and...

February of 1986, I started working for a manufacturing company. And really, really enjoyed the job. Had worked my way up into management. I ended up being there for about 24 years. Spent about three years in Bowling Green, Kentucky to help get a plan up and going and training the mechanics. Worked a ton of hours. This is no lie. I worked seven days a week for a year and a half straight.

Did not take any days off, did not call in sick. It was a must that we got the plan up and running, got the mechanics going. Once that kind of started fizzling and the mechanics got trained and things, I spent a lot of time playing golf, just enjoying life and enjoying the fruits of all the hard work. And got invited to some parties here and there. Again, nothing big. And then I needed to get back to Salt Lake. I had two daughters here.

And I was missing them, hadn't seen them in a couple years, talked to them on the phone all the time. And when I got back to Salt Lake, they started putting a lot of responsibility on me. And before I knew it, I had 43 employees underneath me. I was over eight different packaging lines. I was over the property maintenance. I was over the parts room. was over housekeeping. I had projects coming at me from every direction. And the stress was finally starting to get to me. And,

We, my wife and I at the time happened to be invited to a party. And we go to this party. I'm like, my gosh, I could use a party, right? I got to get my mind off of work. And one of the guys that was there at the party come up to me and he goes, Hey, do you party? And I'm like, what do mean? Do I party? Yeah, I'm here at the party, right? Yeah, I'm partying. He goes, do you party? I'm like, okay. Yeah, I know what that means. And I'm like, yeah, man, it's been a long time, a long, long time, right?

So anyway, we go in the back room and we do our stuff and I had stored cocaine before. And again, was just something that was just here and there. If it wasn't there, it didn't even really cross my mind. That was the first night, Hamishin, I don't know how long, where I completely forgot about work. It was not on my mind. I actually had an amazing time at the party, really enjoyed myself. And...

That following week, I just kept thinking about it some more. I'm like, my gosh, that was so nice. I wasn't stressed. I felt really good. And I ended up through my wife, she knew this guy, or she had a friend that she worked with that knew this guy, and I ended up getting this guy's number. So I called him up and said, hey, do you know where I can get any more of that stuff? And he goes, you're talking to him. So basically he was the dealer, right? As a good dealer does, he gets other people.

Hamish (04:32)
you

Al Richards (04:36)
you know, to try it. And before I knew it, Hamish, I did it every Friday, Saturday night, cocaine and alcohol for eight years. And it was only during the weekend. It was only on a Friday and Saturday night, because my job was important to me. I focused on my job. And yeah, gosh, I got to where someone who took care of themselves, I was up at 198 pounds, most I've ever weighed in my whole life. And...

I knew it was taking me down a bad road. I could feel it in my bones. remember partying on the weekends and looking in the mirror sometimes when I'd go into the bathroom and just go, God help me. Because I know this isn't going to turn out good. Even though I'm doing it two days a week, I was doing a lot of it two days a week. And God has a sense of humor.

One day I walk into work and I get drug tested. I hadn't been drug tested in over 15 years And I'm like no no this is not possible. There is no way And so I made up some excuses, so I didn't have to do the UA And my boss says whatever but tomorrow you've got to go just no ifs ands and buts I got home. I was calling everybody. I know hey, man. How do you pass a drug test? How do I get this stuff out of my system? I don't know what to do and

I was drinking pickle juice, was drinking prune juice. Any freaking thing I could possibly think of to cleanse me out, right? I go into work the next day, I end up going and doing the UA, a week goes by, I don't hear anything.

Without a two weeks goes by, I still don't hear anything. So at this point I'm thinking, holy shit, I beat it. I freaking beat it.

Into the third week, about halfway through, I'm in my office, I'm having a meeting with my mechanics, and over the radio, I hear security call my manager, and they say that the manager of HR needs to see him. And immediately, I felt all the blood rush to my feet. I knew exactly what that call was about. About 15 minutes later, my manager, my boss, showed up at my door in my office.

and said, finish up your meeting, we gotta talk. And I ended up losing my job 24 years. And it really opened my eyes, it changed my life completely.

Hamish (07:06)
That's, that's really tough, isn't it? mean, why? Well, why almost a silly question. But why was there no, how can we help you? Why was it just cut and dry? Do you, do you understand why they didn't support you anyway? Or is that just the policy of the company at the time?

Al Richards (07:22)
No, so, you know, I knew the owner of the company very, very well. And I used to talk to him a lot when I was in Bowling Green, because he had come up and talked to me about stuff that was going on. What had happened, though, Hamish, is about six months, maybe eight months before all this happened, the company had sold. He had sold the company. So corporate world came in. And I'm the first person that failed a drug test.

I'm making really, really good money. And the way the company looked at it is, we have no tolerance for this. We're going to make an example out of you. Now, if it would have been the original owner, I probably would have got a slap on the wrist. I probably would have been suspended for a few days. I probably would have been drug tested more often. But this company said, no, we're done with you. See ya. And it was definitely, it was a, definitely a shock because I had worked my butt off.

for a lot of years to work my way up into management and I gave that company everything. I I didn't call in sick. I don't know if you guys have PTO, it's personal time off. A lot of companies give you so many hours, you know, after so many hours work to show you how dedicated I mean, I only use PTO to go play golf. I didn't use it for sick because I always went to work when I was sick. I had 980 something hours of PTO. It's because I didn't use it.

Hamish (08:39)
you

Al Richards (08:50)
And yeah, it was a huge shock. What the crazy thing about this, Hamish, is I was dating a girl for three years. The three years we dated, she had no clue I was snorting cocaine every weekend. She had no clue. We were drinking on the weekends, just socially drinking. We got married.

And a month and a half after we got married is when I lost my job. So here she's thinking that she married a guy who is this wonderful guy who has his shit together, has held a job for 24 years, making good money to find out he's been sneaking cocaine behind her back the whole three years that they were dating. That was even a blow for her.

Hamish (09:35)
That's just, that is really tough, isn't it? So what happened? What did you do after losing your job and obviously having to have some hard conversations with your wife?

Al Richards (09:47)
man. You know, I fell into some depression for a couple weeks. Felt like crap because what I done to her, I was falling into that, self pity me, know, feel sorry for me. I was very angry at the company, which I needed to be more angry at myself than the company. I'm the one that caused it, not them.

I really didn't know what I wanted to do. You know, a lot of, our whole family is basically LDS, Mormon, and I've not really practiced it really. And I always believed in God. And after about two weeks or so, I thought, you know what, I need to hit my knees. And I was really embarrassed to do it. And it's crazy how our mind works, right?

Here I am embarrassed to hit my knees to pray to somebody that I don't see, but yet I also believe in. And I finally did it. And I just broke down and just started bawling. And I don't know how long I was on my knees praying and just not knowing where to go. And I even said to him, I remember saying to God, I'm like, when I was asking for help, I wasn't meaning this. I wasn't meaning me losing my job. However, he knew the direction I was supposed to be going. I didn't.

And it was tough, it was tough, really tough, especially because I had to break the news to my newly wife what had happened. I did a lot of soul searching and I think God knew that's exactly what I would do. I had to dig down deep and I really had, I started thinking, who am I? Who am I as a person? I had a friend call me up who found out I lost my job.

And this really hit home, Hamish. We got talking and he goes, goes, Al, I just want to tell you something that you was never trusted. What do you mean I was never trusted? I never stole from anybody. I treated people with respect. He goes, people looked at you as a liar and a manipulator. And like, you're so full of crap. There's no way. And he goes, all right, I'm just telling you, man. I'm just being your friend and telling you upfront. I got off the phone.

I started thinking really heavy on this.

I get emotionally thinking about it I was like, holy crap, he was right. I had spent my life to do whatever I needed to do to get Al's way. It didn't matter how I had to do it. If I wanted my way, I was gonna get my way. I didn't care who was in front of me. I'd push him to the side. I'd lie to him, whatever I needed to do. And...

I had owned my skills. I started at an early age so I didn't get in trouble and not realizing I just started mastering these skills all the way up into my adulthood. And it opened my eyes and I went, I don't want to be this type of person. I had already mastered learning how to control a very bad anger issue. I went to therapy for six months in my mid -twenties to control a really bad temper that I had. And I had accomplished it.

And I'm like, I've got to get this down. I've got to change. I do not want to be a person that somebody doesn't trust because why? And I didn't know which direction to go. I decided I didn't want to work for corporate America again, which was hard on my wife. We got in some pretty heated discussions on that because I didn't want to punch a clock, but yet I didn't know what I was going to do. I had no clue.

The only thing that I knew to do that I always fell back on was fitness. And I had gotten a mountain bike the Christmas before I got fired. And I decided to jump on that mountain bike. I mean, I wasn't working. I had plenty of time and start riding it. And I did. I started riding around the block and before I knew it, I was riding around three or four blocks.

Six months later, I'm doing five miles, six miles, the weight's starting to come off me, I'm starting to thin up. And during all this time, I remember all the time that I was riding my bike, my mind was going probably as quick as I was pedaling. I started going, man, who do I wanna be? What person can I be that I personally can be proud of being? And...

Again, I didn't know which way to go, but I just continued to hit the path and started working odd jobs here and there and God just started placing the right people in front of me and I started reading books motivational type books and I got involved with our local West Jordan Chamber of Commerce that deals with a lot of businesses and things like that. You do a lot of networking started meeting a lot of amazing people.

and just started molding myself into a totally different person, but not even realizing I was even doing it, if that makes sense. I wanted to change. I didn't know how to change, but I was actually changing, if that makes sense. It's crazy.

Hamish (15:05)
It makes complete sense because it's that surrender, isn't it? What am I going to be? Who am I going to be? What do I want to be? I don't know. And as you said, God gave you little tidbits to follow the right way, synchronicities, whatever you want to call it. Things came into, I can do that. And then another one and another one. And I know exactly what you mean because I went through the same thing. It's just like, well, I was this angry person who...

did the same, was manipulative and things like that. And I didn't want to be that person. So yeah, I think when we just go help, I don't know what to do. I think that's when the magic starts happening. Yeah. Makes complete sense.

Al Richards (15:46)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. know, Steve Jobs said once, you know, if you connect the dots of your life backwards, you'll see that you're exactly where you're supposed to be right at this moment. And one of my guests mentioned that on a podcast when I had a guest on my show, and that hit me pretty hard. And I started thinking about it on the way home. And so I did, I started connecting my dots backwards. From the time I lost my job,

which was over 15 years ago, 2009, to this day, and I'm going, my gosh, everything that had happened in my life, every thought that I had stepped on was preparing me to be exactly where I was at that moment. But we're so busy at looking at life through a straw.

I don't know if you did this when you was a kid, right? We used the straws like a telescope. Yeah, we're doing this all the time. We're looking at everybody in the restaurant and all kinds of things using our imagination. But we're not realizing what's out there. You take that straw away. You remove that straw and you see so much around you. You see so much life. And when you really start opening your eyes, you start seeing all the blessings that you're surrounded with on a daily. See, I get emotional talking about it because

It's happened to me. I open my eyes and I see everything that's around me and I see the blessings around me every single day. Even if my day may not be going the way that I want it to, I can still look around and just be grateful that I'm at where I am at right now, because I could have been a lot worse.

Hamish (17:28)
I love that straw straw. I never thought of it like that, but it is, isn't it? You're looking down there. It's that tunnel vision when you're going so fast, so busy, so corporate, got a job, got a family, so focused. don't see, as you said, the magic. You don't see the beauty all around you or you don't see life. I'm going to remember that one. I'm going to keep that one. I'm definitely going to use that one again. I think that's great. I want to go right back to that moment when

everything disappeared. You're no longer worried about work. That feeling, I mean, it is very powerful. Drugs, alcohol, anything is very powerful to just numb things down. But tell me, what was it doing to you mentally, maybe even spiritually, as you were Friday night, Saturday night, you were shutting away the week of work? What was it?

Al Richards (18:22)
You know, it was taking me away from life. I mean, it really was, because again, a lot of people who use or shop or use porn or gambling or work or no matter what it is, no matter what the addiction is, it doesn't matter because it all works the same. The brain fires the same. We start losing ourselves. We start forgetting really what life is all about. And to me, that's where the negative part was coming in. And I was actually losing more of myself.

lot more of myself. For me to get into another marriage that I said I'm giving this one 100 % of my effort, I'm gonna be the best damn husband I can possibly be, yet I was starting out lying and doing things behind my wife's back. That's not a great way of starting at all. Period. And luckily she stayed with me, right? She stayed with

Yeah, it just, takes you away from so much because you get to that point where you could be doing something.

beneficial and instead you're not because you have to numb yourself.

So you're doing something that you feel is making your life enjoyable when really the true joy is something opposite that you're totally missing. And that's spending time with family, that's spending time with friends, that's being coherent. That's now for me, I look at it as a way of being more in tune with my spiritual side.

It's just, yeah. And at that time I really didn't even know it, Hamish. It's taken me all these years to really start figuring a lot of this out and what I was missing and what it was taking away from my life.

Hamish (20:04)
it's absolutely harrowing because I have goosebumps as you were saying that because it was saying I was not catching up with family. I was not catching up with friends. I was not doing this. I was making my world smaller and smaller and squeezing it because everything was so scary. And exactly that. I was not participating in life. I was participating in my own little reality, which was awful. So I think that was a

a really honest answer and thank you for that because it's quite hard to say I was destroying my life, I was all that kind of stuff. It's nothing to be proud of at all. But that's what happens. We kind of fade away, don't we? Nothing matters.

Al Richards (20:51)
Yeah, yeah, you know, and you start realizing things that you are losing. You know, a year later we lost our home. I used all my retirement to do my best to stay afloat and also to pay bills. My wife was working her ass off to help with the finances. And...

It's crazy how life takes the turn because, and I believe you and I spoke about it before when we spoke that as I was coming out of stepping out of my cesspool, my wife started falling into hers. Her drinking started getting heavier and unfortunately we divorced last year. She fell into the alcoholism. I stood by her side for over eight years and she did really well. Two and a half years of sobriety then last July went right back.

Now for your listeners who's battling addiction or know somebody.

It takes a hold of them so much that you don't even know who they are anymore. And now my ex -wife is homeless. She's living on the streets. This beautiful woman that I married, who I fell in love with, who was such an amazing support for me when I lost my job. I did everything I could to support her, but you finally get to a point where I just couldn't get drug taken down that same dark rabbit hole again.

because it was changing my life, was dragging me down as well because I ended up being addicted to her addiction. And it's hard for somebody who wants to excel and go a direction when basically, and I don't mean this in a disrespectful way at all means, but it's when you've got that chain and that huge steel ball dragging on you every time you try to take a step, it's hard for you to go in the direction that you want to go.

especially if you're going uphill because that weight just keeps pulling you right back down. it's, yeah, I did a talk in Park City, Utah a couple of months ago at a Wellness Alliance event and...

somebody asked me the question about what got me on this path and I'm like I didn't put myself on this path God put me on it everything that's happened he's the one that's placed me where I'm at to this day and and yeah so it's it's just this addiction stuff if I may say it's a bitch it is a bitch and I have seen people lose their lives not personally been there well but to just watch

somebody just slowly take their life and I've got friends who have lost their loved ones because of it and I'm grateful I happen to be one that

God helps save, guess. Not saying that he's not saving the other ones. I think he just calls them home because he knows their pain is so deep and so hard for them to get out of. So he brings them back home basically to get them out of their pain. But I am a firm believer. I don't like using the word believer because the word lie is in that one. So my version of it is.

Those who have stepped forward and have battled through their battles of addiction, we are now here to walk amongst the others to lend our hand, like you're doing Hamish, right? We're putting our hand out going, what can I do to help you? Because we've got to do something to change this because too many amazing people are losing their lives because of all this.

Hamish (24:22)
Thank you. I'm sorry to hear about your wife. Yeah, I have no words. That's just so tough. how did you manage to turn yourself around? You said you realized everything and things started making sense. You got some odd jobs and things. How did you pick yourself up and get going again? And how did that change?

who you were as you went through that transformation.

Al Richards (24:47)
Gosh, that's a really good question. You know, I just kept moving forward. I kept moving forward, kept tapping into my spiritual side, kept talking to God who is my higher power, other people it's different, which is great. That doesn't matter to me.

just continuously tapping in and asking and asking for the right direction to go. And as I said earlier, you start making a change, however, you really don't realize the change that you are making. And getting involved with the chamber was one of the best things for me. I got to meet so many amazing people and people who gave me some really good ideas on some things.

I was damn undetermined Al Richards was not going to be known as a liar and a manipulator ever, ever. My integrity and my accountability meant the world to me. And I was going to do everything I could to keep that. So when I said I was going to do something, I did it. I didn't care if I felt like shit or not. If I said I was going to be there, I was going to be there. No excuses, no tippy toeing.

I was there for friends finally. If a friend called me up said I need help moving, could you help me? This time I'm not sitting on a couch drinking a fricking whiskey and a coke snorting a line of cocaine going no I'm too busy. Now I'm going when do you need me there? I'll be there and I'll be there until you tell me you're done right? And it just it just continued it just continued and I just kept working on

Being a better me, being a better father, even though my daughters are grown, being a better papa, I got three amazing, beautiful grandkids. That changed my life right there, even just having my first grandchild.

to leave something for me. Whether it's left after I'm gone or not, I don't know. But to be able to know that when someone hears my name...

no one will ever speak an ill word about me, ever, ever again.

God's helped me get there. He has definitely helped me get there, because I've had a number of people tell me that whenever my name's brought up, all they hear is positive things. And now you're to the point where you cannot allow your ego, the bad part of your ego, to kick in, right? Where you think you're above everyone else. You have to stay humble, and I love that.

I really love that challenge of being able to stay humble. To be able to stay conscious enough through all these years of working on me to be able to go, okay, wait a minute, I'm getting a little bit too big for my britches. It's time to bring myself back down to level because this is where I wanna be. I don't wanna be up here above anyone else, because I'm not that powerful.

I want to be where everyone else is and if I'm down here with everyone else, the more I can continue to grow, that energy will resonate on someone else to help them grow and vice versa. You know, I'm hanging around amazing, amazing, incredible people. Their energy is helping feed me as well. So we're doing this growing together. It's not one or the other. We're doing it together and I just love that.

Hamish (28:19)
I love that too. It's so important, is it? Being in the trenches, but also being surrounded by people who can support you, support us and understand and say, right, here's some help and then you just pass it on. It is, it? Being that light, shining that torch for people so they don't trip over their feet or whatever they're dealing with. I think that's really remarkable. As you said, it is a humbling place because we do make mistakes. We do...

silly things, we do get caught out. then sometimes, yeah, you know, I'm actually quite good at this. And then you get that humble pie back again.

Al Richards (28:54)
Yeah, yeah, as soon as you think you got it, God pulls that rug right out from underneath you and says, no you don't.

Hamish (29:03)
Yeah, that's right. It's okay to dust your knees off and say, I'm sorry, I messed up again.

Al Richards (29:11)
Yep.

Hamish (29:14)
Fabulous. So you said you've got three grandchildren, two grandchildren.

Al Richards (29:19)
Yeah, I have three. have two granddaughters and a grandson. And they are just amazing. They grow up way too quick. My oldest granddaughter is gonna be 13, a teenager in November. My youngest granddaughter just hit 10 in March. And she was so excited to hit double digits. I told her enjoy the double digits now. And my grandson is eight.

Hamish (29:25)
Ha ha.

Mm hmm. lovely. Yeah. No, that's fab. I've got nephews so I can give them back to my brother. And it is lovely. It is lovely seeing them, sharing time with them. And I guess, I mean, I haven't had kids. So living through them, I can just experience that little bit of magic that I never had in that respect. yeah, it sort slows you down, doesn't it? It makes you, as you said,

Al Richards (29:48)
Yeah.

Hamish (30:07)
makes you take that straw away and just look at the world with more depth and more beauty.

Al Richards (30:11)
Yeah, you know, it's all three of my grandkids are very active in academics and sports and things. know, my oldest granddaughter, huge in the gymnastics. She's finally after being in gymnastics since she was five, finally said, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. They're all into soccer, very, very good soccer players. And now soccer season starting up my Saturdays.

Hopefully the Saturdays that I usually work Saturdays, but I'll be taking more Saturdays off to go to these soccer games And I don't know how many times Hamish I've been sitting there on the sidelines sitting in my chair watching my grandson or my granddaughters play soccer going man If I was still snorting cocaine and drinking every weekend, I'd be missing all this Because I'd feel like shit the next morning. I wouldn't want to go to a game

or I come up with some kind of excuse. And I'm so grateful that I have that opportunity to be able to go there and be a part of their life and be a part of them growing up because they'll remember me going to these soccer games. They won't remember me buying them something for their birthday or for Christmas, but they will remember me being at their games and cheering them on. And it's something that when we are lost in ourselves,

we really lose what life is all about. And that's what life is all about. It's about being with the friends and the family and the grandkids or nieces and nephews. You know, we got these, we got beautiful Wasatch Mountains here. I mean, in 30 minutes, I can be 11 ,000 feet up in a mountain and take off on a hike with waterfalls and lakes. And I tell people all the time, especially people who

Hamish (31:41)
Hmm.

Al Richards (32:05)
I have a few people who are still very, very LDS and they're trying to get me to go to church. And I'm like, I don't need to go to a church into a chapel that a man built. I'm going to God's church. He built that up there in those mountains. And I get to sit in his church that he built. And to me, that's just an amazing, amazing feeling. And it brings so much life to me. know, being 61, I hit 61 in...

in July this year and I don't know how much more time God has here for me. And I tell myself all the time, I will live to be 100. And I just hope that God keeps my mind straight. I stay physical fit. I go to the gym five days a week. I do concrete work, so that's physical as well. As soon as this show's done, I'm gonna be going out and breaking out some sidewalks. However, life is so much more to me than anything.

Something else that I really want to share with your listeners

Society has a way, especially with us men, of putting us down for showing our feelings. I've teared up throughout this show, and I'm not embarrassed by doing it. And it doesn't make me less of a man by doing it.

We have to allow our feelings to go through their process, whatever those feelings are. God gave these emotions to us for a reason, whether we're happy, sad, depressed, not feeling so well, whatever emotions that we have. Allow yourself to sit in them. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay if you're pain, you got pain here in your heart. It's okay. The trick of it is,

Sit in it. Figure out what the lesson is behind it. Learn from it. Then move forward. Don't stay stuck, because if you stay stuck, that's when you stay in that cesspool and that's when more shit starts piling on top of you. But when you allow yourself to sit in the emotions and you look in the mirror and you look for the message in the mirror, sometimes you get the answer right away. Sometimes it takes a while. However, there's nothing

wrong with showing your emotions and if you have people, and I'm just gonna be flat ass, I mean, this is what I love about me too, I just sell it like it is, whether you wanna take it or not. If you got people telling you to fricking stop feeling the way that you're feeling, you don't need them around. You can still be friends with them, but you don't need them around because your feelings are your feelings. They don't know what you're going through. They could be there for support and say, hey,

If you need something, I'm here for you. If you need an ear, mine's open for you. Don't ever let people say you don't need to be feeling this way, because you do. And go through it, get through it, and then just keep moving on, and you'll be surprised how that will change your life.

Hamish (35:04)
Absolutely. Yeah. And their feelings, their thoughts, they come, they say something and give you a message and off they go. You don't need to hang on to them. Yeah. You don't need to hang on to that anger, that rage, that fear. We do, but we don't need to. When I got to rehab, I cried for three weeks. How are you doing, Hamish? Tears. I thought there were four emotions. Love, hate.

rage and anger. That's what I knew until I was 40, mid -40s. That's basically my summation of it and they would be like... And I wouldn't let them in. And it was, when I started to, was harrowing. But, so worth it. As you said, you're going up in the mountains. That's your church. I go...

walking around here through the woods. That's my church and that is just, that is my safe space. It is lovely. Yeah. And those emotions still hurt. They're still unpleasant. You know, I dug up some this morning before I did this call with you and it was like, that's not nice. That is really not nice, but that's just part of it and off it went. Yeah.

Al Richards (36:04)
Yeah.

Hamish (36:17)
So how would you just expand on that a bit more? How would you sort of allow them to go through you and not get caught up in them and get tied up in them and identify with them?

Al Richards (36:27)
You know, for me, Hamish, what's really helped me is to figure out what the lesson is behind it, because there's a lesson. There's a lesson behind everything that happens in our life. And sometimes I don't, again, I don't get an answer. And sometimes I just have to say, okay, I have to wash my hands of it and go, okay, the answer will come when it's supposed to. And other times I get my answer pretty quick. The times that you don't,

Hamish (36:28)
Okay.

Al Richards (36:55)
You have to tell yourself in the back of your mind, okay, I'm going through these emotions. I don't like where I'm sitting right here. What can I do to get myself out of it? And as long as, and again, this is just for me. I don't know if it's gonna work for everyone. Just a good example, about nine months ago, I had a situation happen in my life and it really knocked me to my knees. And I just was not feeling me at all.

And I went through about two weeks of this. I knew I was going through it. I didn't like the feelings that I was feeling. However, I kept telling myself, allow these emotions to go through. I'm still not figuring out what the lesson is behind this yet, but I will. A lot of times if I can't figure out what the lesson is, you just have to surrender. And it's crazy, because a lot of times when you surrender, all of sudden the lesson's there in front of you. Right in front of you.

And I don't know, it's the craziest, craziest thing. About two weeks of this, all of sudden I woke up one day and I was like, my hell, I feel fricking amazing. I feel great. I'm gonna go on a hike, right? And I take off and head up in the mountains and go on a six mile hike or whatever it may be. And when I was on my hike, that's when all of sudden the lesson hit.

is that I was allowing somebody else to determine my happiness. That's what it was all about. That's what I was struggling with. I was struggling with they pulled themselves out of my life, which I thought they were gonna bring me joy and happiness. And I felt like I lost that. And once I released it, there it was. The answer was right in front of me. I'm going, my gosh, I can be happy by myself.

Hamish (38:25)
Mm

Al Richards (38:47)
Our happiness comes from us, from within. No one else can make us happy. Can someone add to our happiness? Absolutely. Hell yes. Our happiness though comes from here, within, inside of us. And all of sudden on that hike, I figured it out. I'm like, my gosh, I spent two weeks with my head hung low and a frown on my face and sometimes tearing up at night over something that...

I could have figured it out a long time ago, but I didn't because I had to go through these emotions and I had to figure it out myself. I love to say, look at the lesson in the mirror. Look at the lesson in the mirror. When you can sit in front of the mirror and look at yourself, square in the eye.

it'll figure it out. However, if you ask yourself a question and you look away when you ask yourself that question, you're not asking yourself the real question because you're not telling yourself the truth. You have to literally look at yourself square in the eye when you're asking that question. You do not veer any way, up or down, side to side, because if you are, you're not being honest.

Hamish (39:54)
You've also said though, and I think really importantly is you've got to be honest. You really have got to be brutally honest with yourself, don't you?

Al Richards (40:01)
Yes, very honest. You know, it goes back to that accountability. You know, I was at an event last Sunday, a friend of mine who's in long -term recovery and helped a couple recovery centers start up here in the Salt Lake Valley. I went to go support him at one of his talks. And this guy did prison time. I mean, hung around some bad, bad, bad people, people who wouldn't blink an eye to take your life.

not, it wouldn't even blink an eye. And he started real light, you know, he started talking about an integrity and accountability. And when you start having accountability, that changes your life. And I do not know how many people have heard of the Cartman's Triangle. Look it up. It's K -A -R -P -A -N, the Cartman's Triangle. There's a really good book called The Power of Ted.

Hamish (40:48)
Mm

Al Richards (40:56)
Anybody that I refer that book to that reads that book they call me and they like this book just changed my life and The Cartman's triangle in the bottom triangle the very point of the upside -down triangle is the word victim and then you have at the top right the person of the rescuer and the Persecutor and we play all three of these all day long. They all intertwined right all day long. We're going from one to the other When we stop sinning when we stop playing in that

in that lower sandbox. And we start taking accountability for our own actions, instead of also using the word woundology that Caroline Mize came up with, where we blame, complain, and justify. When you take all that shit out of your life, and you pull those gears apart, within a matter of days, you will see such a huge change in your life. A huge change. And...

It's opened my eyes so wide, Hamish, that I can be somewhere and I can watch somebody be where I used to be. And it's crazy. I watched a guy at a mailbox thing. You know, he was all upset at the lady behind the counter, which she had nothing to do with it. It's at a UPS store. And he gets all pissed off and says, you just ruined my whole GD day and storms out.

And I'm thinking that man just let his whole day go to shit because of one little teeny thing that happened. Take accountability for it, right? Why are you telling the lady off behind the counter, she did not deliver your package. She's just there to grab your package when it comes to hand to you. But if it's not there, what does she have to do with it? You know, so again, take accountability for your life and for your actions. And when you do, instead of blaming,

and complaining and justifying your anger and everything else.

It's that song by Lynyrd Skynyrd, Just a Simple Man or Just a Simple Woman, right? It just seems like life is so much simpler and I like to say a lot of times even on my show, life is still gonna throw shit balls at you. That's just part of life. You'll dodge some and then there's other that are gonna hit you square in the damn face and you're not gonna like it. However, you can still wipe it off, right? It just, you just go with the flow.

And when you do, so many amazing things happen to you in your life.

Hamish (43:24)
Absolutely. Yeah. I met that lower triangle, the drama triangle and the Ted one on top. And it is empowering, isn't it? You've gone from the rescuer, you start coaching, you've gone from the victim and whatever that goes to and the persecutor to the encourager. And it is remarkable. You reminded me, I'm going to dig it up and have a look at it. We'll put it in the show notes because it's important. But yeah, it is. It's that.

It's that horrible word, accountability and responsibility that people don't like. It's much easier to blame. But I guess you as well, when I chose to take accountability for my life, I set myself free. I don't have to have people's nonsense. I don't have to get upset at the poor person on the checkout who didn't have my package for me. As you said, it's not her fault. I'm certainly not blaming other people for...

stuff. You're giving away your agency, you, when you do all that kind of stuff. But yeah.

Al Richards (44:27)
Yeah, you know, I had a good friend, Hamish, call me up. She was struggling with some things and she asked for advice. I do my best not to give people any advice or suggestions unless they ask for it.

And basically I told her, let it all out. Throw it out there. Do not be embarrassed. Because once you do, once you take accountability, and Hamish, I know you know this, no one, no one can hold that carrot over your head ever, ever again. Ever again.

And it's crazy the support you will get when you do, when you are accountable. When you're afraid that you're gonna be judged. And yes, there'll still be people that will judge you. That's just who they are. That's them, that's on them. That's not on you, that's on them. So when you become accountable, you just set it. You free your life up in so many ways and it just makes life so much more enjoyable because we're supposed to be here to enjoy life.

and we're supposed to experience different things, some good, some bad, some heartbreaking, some devastating, but that's what makes us grow if we allow ourselves to.

Hamish (45:46)
And that's you're letting the light in, you're letting go of that shame and it's really powerful. And yeah, it just allows us, as you said, it allows us to grow and I think that is, yeah, that's when we realise it's not quite as, we're not quite as important as we think and it's actually okay and it is liberating.

Al Richards (46:03)
Yeah, absolutely.

Hamish (46:04)
This has been a fabulous conversation, Al. Thank you ever so much. I've loved what you thought, what you said, what you shared. And particularly the hope, you you said this, this by taking ownership of who you are. mean, you did this, didn't you? When you said, people have called me a liar. People have called me manipulator. I'm not going to be. You put your hand up and said that was me. And now you're not. And people say, rock hand guy, we love him.

Just brilliant. Super, super chuffed. It's been lovely to chat with you. Where can people find out more about you and what you do?

Al Richards (46:43)
Gosh, you can find me on Facebook under Al Richards. You can also find me on Facebook under AR, the other side of addiction. I have two different Facebook pages. You can find me on Instagram under Al Richards as well. YouTube, you can find all my shows on YouTube under AR, the other side of addiction. I'm still working on getting back on the platforms of Podbeam and Spotify. I do have some shows on there, but I'm working on getting...

all that back up and rolling again. Ever since I lost my studio, it's taken me some time to kind of get moving in a different direction. Yeah, those are really good places. Another place you can also find me is another Facebook page called the Healine Utah Success Summit. And if it's okay, I'd like to touch base on that.

The Healing Utah Success Summit is something that myself and my good friend, Mallory Roosh, who's in St. George, Utah, which is about 350 -some miles south of Salt Lake City, she actually came and was a guest on my show just when I first started doing my podcast. She's about the same age as my daughter, so I've adopted her as like one of my daughters. We became really, really good friends, and we got talking one day, and we realized we had the same dreams.

And we had a dream about starting an event that was all based around addiction and suicide and education and inspiration. And in August of 2022, we did our very first event. We had about 75 people attend. And now here we are, October 5th, we have our fourth one. We're doing our fourth one. yeah, so that Facebook page has a lot of inspiration in it.

Sometimes we'll post our videos up on it. It's to see where this healing Utah success summit is going. Our goal is to take this nationwide and hopefully one day worldwide. The possibility is coming up. The possibility is coming up where we can go to different states and do this event. It's very inspirational. To share something really quick, one of my good buddies who I met,

at our event last October.

told me three months ago, met him, he came down, he come running down off the steps as I was coming off the stage and we were just, as soon as I got done talking, we broke away for a 10 minute break and I was coming up off the stage and he runs down, he comes over and introduces himself, has no family, lives in a sober living, has been shot a couple times through bad drug deals and different things like this and I've pretty much kind of put my wings around him.

We become really, really good friends. Three months ago, he opened up and he said, Al, I want you to know something. goes, that day that I met you and Mallory at your event last October, he goes, that event saved my life that day. Cause he goes, I was really starting to contemplate suicide.

And that's what this is all about. Like what you're doing Hamish with the show, some of the stuff you shared with me before the show.

This is what this is all about, right? If we can save one life, the domino effect is so much larger than what we even see. so, yeah, follow me on the social media, guys. I put a lot of inspirational things on there, a lot. Sometimes I'll share a lot of my posts, don't have anything to do with me. It's just whatever resonates that day, I post.

And sometimes I'll do some videos while I'm up hiking. Sometimes I get that inspiration where my spirit says, hey, you need to talk about this. And I'll do some kind of inspirational type video. I just love where I'm at. I love this path God's put me on. And it's given me the opportunity to meet amazing individuals like yourself, Hamish, from all around the world. It's just an amazing, amazing thing. And I just feel blessed all the time.

Hamish (50:47)
Brilliant. Well, thank you for the information about the summit. We will definitely put that on the show notes. I'll put it on my Facebook and things like that and share that because that's really, really, really important. Can you tell me a little bit about your podcast as well? Tell me about that because it sounds well. I've listened to some of the shows and it's really exciting. just tell the listeners about that and why that is so important to you, if you will.

Al Richards (51:13)
Yeah, you know, I started AR, the other side of addiction podcast over about three and a half years ago. And gosh, we just recorded yesterday our 298th episode. So I'm just a couple away from 300. And the whole purpose of when I started this podcast, when my ex -wife was in the depth of her addiction, I made a lot of mistakes on my end of being on the other side of the addiction.

And so many other family members are doing the same thing. And the reason why is because we don't understand it. That's the only reason why is we just don't understand addiction. Even though I had my cocaine and alcohol thing, I still did not really understand addiction. So the whole purpose of the podcast was to educate people and also to help get rid of the stigma of addiction, to let people know.

People like ourselves, we just don't wake up one day and go, you know what, I'm gonna snort cocaine every day, or I'm gonna drink every day, because that's just what I wanna do with my life, right? It slowly grabs us, it slowly pulls us in, and then when it does, it takes a lot of work to get out of it. So I wanted people to understand more, and I like to bring professionals in that talk about trauma and mental health and fitness and diet and brain.

how to rewire your brain and things like that, in my eyes, it still falls underneath the addiction umbrella. And that was the whole purpose of it. just, I did not realize it was gonna go the direction that it's gone. I mean, again, to almost have 300 episodes. I heard if you hit 100 episodes, you've hit a milestone. I don't know what it is. If it's a two milestone at 300, I have no clue. I'm just happy that I'm there. And again,

Just very blessed to have met so many amazing people. I've interviewed people from the UK, Canada, all around the United States. A Hollywood movie star, Breanne Davis, I had her, which actually was on my third show, my very third episode, which I still didn't even know what the hell I was doing at that time. And so it's just been an amazing journey. yeah, listeners, please look up AR, the other side of addiction. You'll see the green and blue AR.

Please like and subscribe, especially on YouTube. would be greatly appreciated.

Hamish (53:32)
Thank you. Well, we'll put that on the show notes as well. And I think that is really important because there is Al -Anon for people, the partners of the children of the people struggling with addiction, but everyone thinks that it's actually, that's not fair. Everyone, people don't comprehend. They can't comprehend the drama and chaos the addict causes. And they try shaming, they try rescuing, they try enabling.

You can't do anything. You can do nothing. And it is so terrifying to watch. As you said, I mean, your wife, your ex -wife is this terrible example of just watching someone just, there's nothing you can do unless they want to change their mind. So I think what you're doing with that is really, really powerful. Last question, Al, what is your superpower that you gained from turning your life around?

Al Richards (54:19)
Thank you.

I believe it's empathy.

I that...

I have really allowed myself to feel more empathy and love for others.

not be that one that's judging. You know, I've shared many times on other podcasts that I've been guests on that I was the one that would drive downtown Salt Lake City and make fun of the unsheltered and the addicts down there and say stuff under my breath like, get your shit together, get a damn job, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Being involved with what I'm involved with now and hearing a lot of the stories that I've heard, which I know you've, I'm sure you're,

doing the same, you start realizing it's not what it is. It's just what we perceive it to be. lot of these individuals have had some really bad things happen to them in their life. And their only way that they've known how to deal with it is to go the direction that they've gone. And so I really do believe this whole 15 year journey that I've been on has really the empathy that I have for other individuals.

You know, we're trained our whole life to look at things in a different way and it just doesn't disappear and there's times where I'll still see myself judging someone and I literally can recognize it now and I have to stop and go, wait a minute. Now I look at them and go, I wonder what kind of terrible thing has happened to you in your life. What has put you here? And so now I'm curious, right? Instead of judging, because I have no right to judge. I'm not perfect. None of us are.

And the only person that needs to be judging me and everyone else that's out there is God. That's the only person. So, yeah, I think that's the superpower that I've gotten from all this.

Hamish (56:16)
Wonderful. think that you, yeah, I think empathy is brilliant. And as you said, that curiosity, think that self -curiosity allows you to see so much, doesn't it? And then just take a check. Al, thank you. This has been fabulous podcast. I've enjoyed chatting and we will do it again. So thank you ever so much for taking the time this morning, getting up early for me. I really appreciate that. So thank you.

Al Richards (56:41)
Absolutely. Thank you. I'm honored to be on your show. So thank you. And we'll get a time schedule so you can come on mine as well.

Hamish (56:46)
love that. Great stuff. Thanks so much.

Hamish Niven (56:49)
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious. If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for their own journey. I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast platform as well, that helps me reach more people. All the important links and information are in the show notes below. Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.