The Crucible:Conversations for the Curious

Hamish Niven (00:01)
Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious. I am Hamish, your host. This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life. Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is not aligned to values and purpose. You are not alone. You can get through this, promise you. Life is far more beautiful on the other side.

Marléne Nunes (00:29)
I functioned in work environments and in those days they didn't have breathalysers at the door so you could come in after a all -night binge and my rule was play hard, you work hard. So if you're half dead at the desk, doesn't matter, have a couple of Pannados or cindals, cindals was my thing, eventually I would literally chew them with coffee at my desk to keep me going for the day.

and then the minute I got out it was okay now we need a drink and that's how I created my entire social circle.

Hamish (01:03)
Hi everybody, today we're talking with Marléne. She is a remarkable person. I met her seven or eight years ago and she was the person I came to after I left rehab to help me get my life back together again. She is a trauma therapist and a life coach and a really genuine, wise, gentle person. So Marléne, thank you ever so much for being here and I hope I haven't embarrassed you by flattering you so much.

Marléne Nunes (01:30)
It makes me want to cry actually, but thank you Hamish for your words. And as I've told you before, it's a privilege to work with you. And thank you for inviting me to be here today.

Hamish (01:43)
Well, thank you. Yeah. No, it was, it was a really interesting start to my journey and, you know, alcohol is a, a very pervasive thing. It certainly kept me small, kept me limited, kept me alive, which is important. Certainly something I'm not proud of, but it was a coping strategy that made me make sense of life until ultimately it was, killing me. So yeah, your, your help was quite remarkable.

So tell me a little bit about your journey, please.

Marléne Nunes (02:18)
So I've obviously thought about this a little bit and I'm not quite sure where to start other than I think the beginning started literally when I was conceived because I came from a space, no worry I'm not going to go blow by blow, I came from a space of immediate rejection. I was rejected from the beginning and I find that I didn't realize it at the time. I had no idea. I mean I was growing up as an angry child and a child that was suppressed a lot but I grew up, I had to grow up really quickly because I was only with my mom.

my dad but I didn't understand the impact that having a single parent had on me and going to an all -girls school and all of the environment around me would have on me when I actually ended up embarking on the world where there were now different kind of people who hadn't experienced what I had experienced. Obviously at school it was a bit of an issue because I mean obviously I was...

child of a divorced parent and in the 60s that was quite a thing. But why I'm telling you this is because my mother, which I didn't realize at the time, was an alcoholic. I don't think she even realized, but it was a way of her coping. So I had seen the pattern in front of me and needed to help her to be in her bed a few times in her life, take the teeth out in the old days when everybody used to have false teeth. But why I think...

that's important in my journey is that I always wanted to be like her. And people would say, you look like him and I wanted to be like her. So that would sort of be the thing. And I can't blame my mom for that because she had so many wounds, but I can tell you something I did. I hated her for many, many, many years. So I went through all that bitterness and what alcohol did for me at a very early age. In fact, in a way I'm pleased I found alcohol.

Because if I didn't, it would have been I was probably going to walk the streets because that was the other way. The other way was to get some attention for myself. So alcohol gave me the false sense of confidence, I guess, that I didn't go and sell myself out there, but I did it anyhow in some way or shape or form. So I'm talking about shame coming from a very, very early age in my life.

very very early. I grew up with shame in the house. I certainly contributed to many shameful memories in my own space but I functioned and that's the tricky part of being dependent on something like alcohol or drugs and I'm gonna say drugs because I did take medication which doctors gave me freely because they ask you so how many drinks do you have a day? No one. What you don't say is one bottle.

There's only one hour a day I'm not maybe drinking because it doesn't really matter. They didn't really ask me that kind of question. So from the age of 17, I was on medication to calm me down. Because apparently I was too excitable. I needed to be, I was anxious. I needed to be calmed down. What I didn't understand was that I was extremely wounded and the only way I could cope was to numb myself. And I've listened to many people talk about their journeys.

on your podcast as well as others. And I've always wondered how would I put it out there? And I think the bottom line is when you understand that we all have wounds and we inflict wounds on one another.

And the minute we've taken a drug or an alcohol, we lose the sense of, is this okay for the other person? Is this okay for me? We lose all sense of what's, and I don't like saying right or wrong because to me it's not right or wrong. It's I choose to do something that serves my soul, that doesn't harm someone else, or I'm doing something that harms someone else and harms me.

I functioned in work environments and in those days they didn't have breathalysers at the door so you could come in after a all -night binge and my rule was play hard, you work hard. So if you're half dead at the desk, doesn't matter, have a couple of Pannados or cindals, cindals was my thing, eventually I would literally chew them with coffee at my desk to keep me going for the day.

and then the minute I got out it was okay now we need a drink and that's how I created my entire social circle. So to be honest with you sitting here where I am now and been thinking about what to say to you is I've got some really amazing friends I really have they sat many hours with me listening to me drinking and talking and I was not the happy driver well I would be up to a point and then I would get to that I'd be the girl sitting in the corner or

I'd be the one on the table. So there was no in -between. And my friends handled that because they drank with me. Once or twice I had some people that did do partaking in the activities I did as well that actually said to me that it's time to stop. And I remember one particular occasion. I can't remember how old I was. We used to go to a pub down the road quite regularly. In fact, you'd go three nights a week and then it'd be five nights a week. And before you know it, then you'd have...

seven party nights, just different places. And one of my friends, her and I were sharing a space, a flat, and she said to me, you have to stop because people are talking about you. And that was because of my promiscuous behavior.

And bearing in mind I had been married already and divorced and at that point my husband never said anything to me about alcohol, my then husband, but obviously my behaviour created the mess of what happened. He ended up being my friend all my life after that and we've had this discussion before he died about how he enabled me. So I think the reason I'm saying this is that we don't realise how we

enable people.

in when we say, come for a drink, I know you feeling sad. We need to celebrate, bring the champagne. And it's such a, society's normalized that kind of behavior, which I'm saying this now with a lot of trip and sadness in my heart. Because if somebody had just said to me, actually there are other ways to celebrate.

When you're feeling like you're dying inside and you want to kill yourself, talk to somebody.

Maybe it's not your friend on the corner because maybe he or she doesn't understand. But find someone who does and I didn't do that. I would go to the psychiatrists, psychologists, and I would just lie. So who the hell was I lying to? I was actually lying to myself. And although it sounds like it's going all over the place, my point is that when you stop drinking,

you actually realize that you knew all along what you were doing.

but you weren't prepared to pause. It was immediately reach out for something, and that's a coffee cup by the way, reach out for something. And coffee can also become an addiction, right? So what I noticed after I stopped drinking, which was, we worked out just now, was 2 ,362 days ago.

Thank you. Is that I have other addictions.

and that we are all addicted to something. So when you notice that you're doing something over and over and over, repetitively...

have a look and just take a moment. And that's what I've learned in this process is to take a moment and actually sit back and go, okay, what is actually going on here? So the reason I'm saying this, why I managed to get through drinking and doing the work I do, which is quite scary to actually put it out there and actually say that in 2011. So I stopped drinking in 2017. You can work that out for yourself in 2011.

I started my journey of being a life coach.

during the day and an alcoholic at night. So I managed to manage that. Friday's not so great. Friday afternoon's no appointments. So I then had the opportunity, which was golden, right? I could book my diary out according to my habits. In between all of this, I've exercised all my life. So I've taught aerobics and spinning and pilates and all kinds of things. So I managed to and run and walk long distances and swim.

and swimming wasn't part of that so much anymore then, that came later on in life. But I managed to do all of those things and function and still drink myself into a stupor. Run to the garage on a Saturday morning or Saturday afternoon because that's when I woke up and have a look and go around the car to check.

had I hit something, was there blood on the car? Because I couldn't remember. I can't tell you how many pavements I hit and I always had an excuse. I had a book in my mind. It was this book of excuses. It was always, I looked left. outside Monte Cassino was the best I've ever done. That was, and that's when I should have woken up, but I didn't think. Monte Cassino had only just started and they...

just put those circles out there and there might be people listening to this who might remember this. I had gone to a local pub economy where it was called, a friend of mine was getting married, I wasn't allowed to go to the wedding because my ex was there, not my ex -partner, ex -boyfriend, ex -husband I mean, and I came along and I'd obviously had far too much. Just raining, I didn't see the circle, so I just went, choop. So my story was,

It was new, there were no streetlights. I didn't see the circle. Somebody swerved so I had to go across and I aquaplanned. And the police arrived. Even then...

I didn't get that, my God, what's gonna happen? I had more fear of I'm a woman. What's gonna happen? Because that was a reality from my childhood. I had experienced situations in my life. I have been raped myself as well, as an adult. And I was more afraid that that was gonna happen. So this was in 1997. I'll show you how long ago that was. And I was...

Just very, very lucky that the one cop that stopped walked up to me and said to me, where are your keys? So I said, they're in there. And he said to me, took them away. He said, I'm going to take you home, but you need to phone somebody now to come and help you. And the only person I could phone was my ex -husband, who had been at this wedding and just got home.

And he took the call because he was the one person I knew who'd always be there for me no matter what. Because as I mentioned, he was my friend as well. And he came. The cops did take me home. They arrived at the same time as he did. And the cop came and saw me on the Monday because when my friend arrived, I was obviously very emotional. And then with the amount of alcohol, I started crying even more and getting hysterical and all of that stuff. This is what I've been told. So the cop came the next day and he wanted to know if there was...

a problem, could he maybe help me? And what did I do? I denied it. I'm fine. There's no domestic issues between anybody. That was my friend, my ex -husband. I'm absolutely fine. I'm single. I'm happy. I've got a good job. I'm coping. And I wasn't. If I'd actually listened to him, that was what? 20 years earlier. If I'd listened, I possibly would not have lost the love of my life.

I met in between. He tried to tell me, not possibly in the way that I could hear him.

But I acknowledge it now, that was the first thing I thought about. Because I used to smoke as well and he complained about the smoking. The smoking I managed to give up on my own, that was quite easy. But the drinking I didn't listen because I denied it, you know. I'm fine, I'm absolutely fine. I didn't give my business card to that person or I gave my business card to that person because there was always a reason, as I told you, I had a book of lies. Or excuses, but they were actually lies. That's it. And if you meet me in person, the very first thing I'll tell you...

is that I don't lie. And I actually don't. If you ask me a question, ask me the right one and I'll answer you. So I learned how to be devious.

That, having said all of that, when I did give up, the, it was 10 days after my birthday. In 2017 I was 58. I don't remember my 58th birthday. I remember the morning maybe. I remember going for lunch, I remember where we went. I remember there was copious amounts of champagne.

I don't remember much else. I know we went next door to the neighbors when we got home. My husband was with me, my current husband. And after that I remember nothing.

When I woke up the next morning, I really didn't remember. And I went down the passage and I said to my husband, look, I don't remember what happened last night. Please tell me what I did. And he didn't believe me. He never believed me that I didn't remember. And when he finally understood that I was being dead serious, I told him up to a point where I remembered and I didn't remember anything else. Because my fear was what on earth have I been doing when I zone out.

You know apparently I, excuse me, I didn't do anything that I thought I had done but I had drank myself to a stupor. So this I sat with myself for a while and it took me until the 30th of December. We were sitting at a particular event, they were watching a fire show and I picked up a beer bottle and I thought this is the last time I drink. I never said a word to anyone. I didn't go to AA at that point.

But what I did do is I booked myself into a retreat, a silent retreat. And there was some resistance about me coming because I do a process called TRE and they were scared that I was going to tremor. And I said, actually, you don't understand. I have to come. I was adamant. The teacher had a conversation with me in an interview. And she said, OK, but I didn't tell her why I was going. I never told a single soul. And I'm not patting myself on the back. It's not the easiest way to do it. It's not a way I recommend.

It worked for me because I had already made the decision. And I think that's the point of where we get to. Is that, that's it. It's here, no further. I can't carry on like this. You know, I went to the Pashna, I never spoke to anyone for 10 days. I went through God knows what, I was as sick as a dog, but they didn't realize. Plus I've got an issue with my guts, which I'm sure was alcohol related. So that was a way of getting up why I was vomiting. And I did, I vomited and I was, yuck. And because of my...

Because of that and because of the back pain that I experienced, they let me stay in my room a little bit longer than other people would have been, which suited me fine. I was closer to the bathroom and I was used to the bathroom anyhow, because I had been through that in my life many times. It was my best friend. So coming out of that, no one realized what I was doing and people would say, well, aren't you having a drink? And eventually my husband said to me, what on earth is going on? So I said, well, I said, you don't want to have a glass of wine.

I don't think I ever want to drink again.

for now. And I left it like that. You know, that was 2362 days ago. I've never looked back, ever. It's not easy. But what it did do, it gave me the ability to actually really hear people. And I need to say this to you Hamish, because that's when you stepped into, I mean, I really knew you, but that's when you stepped into my space. And whether you knew it at the time, I did share it with you after that, but...

whether you needed the time or not, you actually inspired me more than you realized. Because of... How could I put this? I felt like for a moment I wasn't alone. Even though I didn't make my life part of our sessions at all, I did ask you a question which you may remember and I asked you to please take me to AA. And you did. Okay. So we went in a place in Krautfontein.

and I remember sitting there thinking, this is not me. I got in the car and I cried. I didn't drink after that, but I thought I can't do this. And then I went once or twice to meetings on my own somewhere else at a different place, a different venue where I felt a little bit better. And I still decided this is not my way. Because I've done so much on my own. I needed to do this on my own. I got there by myself and I needed to get out.

So for clients out there that have gone through what I've experienced.

My strength came from knowing that somewhere, some part of me must have loved me enough to say enough.

And that's the strength that I've drawn from. And it doesn't mean so many years later that if I'm sitting next to somebody and they have a glass of wine under my nose, that after a while I wonder, I wonder what it would be like if I just took a sip. But it would be a death sentence and I understand that. So now I've learned to empower myself and say, please, could you just put the glass on the other side?

And if I do that the third time and they don't listen, I will leave. And it's not because I want other people to change their lives because of me. It's my choice. I've made decisions in my life that have changed my life for the better. It's helped me understand a lot more. I've studied a lot more about trauma. I understood why I did the things I did. It gave me clarity. And now I can sit with that awareness of going, okay, that's the inner child speaking. And I've actually written stuff about the inner child. How?

important it is for us to just love your inner child at whatever stage he or she may be at because they need some nurturing otherwise I wouldn't have gone out there to try and find something external to make me feel better which never did actually it did for a while you know happy happy and then all of a sudden it's not happy anymore you know then it's bring the tissues in african's way the south africans will resonate this you get with this word you get drunk for three where you

you just cry about everything and anything and nothing makes sense. And then you put your head on the table and you sleep and somebody goes, hey, it's time to go home. So yeah, I feel like I've rambled on now. So I'm gonna keep quiet for a moment, Hamish, I and give you some air space.

Hamish (21:19)
Thank you for that and congratulations on 2 ,362 days. That is brilliant. I think that is probably so empowering to remember that you have made that promise to yourself 2 ,300 days ago and you've kept it. And that is difficult. It is hard to do because you know, I know alcohol works. That's why we did it. It works as a way to...

numb to keep the fear away, to keep anything away and people and life and friendships and communication and connection. But it kept the scary shit away. So congratulations. That's brilliant. And thank you for all the rest of that as well, because you've, you've reminded me of the importance of, of little promises you made to yourself and keeping going and you know, that, that drink being next to you.

belonging to somebody else, you've given yourself permission to leave somewhere where you feel unsafe. And I think that if somebody can take one thing away from this conversation, I think it's that, that if you feel unsafe somewhere, you have your own permission to leave to get safe. Because I think that's really, really important.

Marléne Nunes (22:39)
And I hear you and for me safety in any aspect or should I say in any area of life is important and for me when a client steps into my room or my virtual room that's the most important thing for me is they need to feel safe.

So I will actually ask, is there something in this room that needs to move for you to feel safe, if I can sense that they're unsafe.

because it's the...

the lack of equilibrium if one wants to balance in our nervous system that creates us to or allows us the stepping board.

gives us the stating board. I'm trying to find the right word for this one. We react, okay, if we're not in balance. When we're in balance, we respond. So that gives you choice.

So just like you can choose not to do something and not have a glass of wine or choose to never have another glass of wine or another tablet or for that matter get stuck to this thing because it is exactly the same when you get stuck to the phone or the TV or whatever it may be. When you're in balance you're empowered to make that decision for yourself. You take responsibility for yourself. And that's a tough one because taking responsibility means I have to own all my stuff.

That stuff that still makes me cringe sometimes. I'm like, I did that. Because there's another little gremlin here in the back of my head that goes, and what about the stuff you don't remember?

So I've sort of come to peace with that part of me, that it lets little bits out when it's okay for me to remember. I need to stress though that although I did this journey on my own, I didn't really do it completely on my own. Because of the nature of the work that I do, I'm constantly in supervision, I'm constantly in training, I'm constantly in sessions with my peers where we work on one another. So I've had a lot of help.

And I think that's what we all need to stress out there is that help is out there in various shapes and forms.

And if you want your relationships to be real, you need to be real.

Hamish (24:48)
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think the safety thing, it's in our nature. It's our basic need, isn't it? Sleep and safety. And I realized my drinking kept me safe. It was keeping me safe from those fears, those conversations I had to have and beliefs that completely contradicted who I was and all sorts of things. So it was keeping me safe and...

Marléne Nunes (24:49)
and

Hamish (25:19)
and knowing you as I do, I know that you make people feel safe. And when you're somebody is able to make you feel safe externally, then you can start looking in. You've got that. You're being held. So then you can look at that scary stuff and go, well, it's not actually that scary. It's when I don't have that support, it's scary. When I don't have that capacity to look at it, it's scary. So.

Yeah. So what, why did you move into life coaching?

Marléne Nunes (25:51)
It was actually happenstance, I guess, in that I was retrenched. But before that, I was actually sitting in, I was working for a company that had contracted Mozambique and I was working in a rural area. And I kept on looking at the people around me thinking, can you imagine if we could do the kind of work that actually helps these people grow? Not only brings them water.

because I was in that kind of space. And I didn't realize that there was obviously where I was planting some seeds in the environment for myself. So when I was retrenched, I thought, okay, I need some help. And this time, and even though I was happily drinking, I realized I needed help. And I actually went to a company and they, I approached them obviously on the internet and they said to me, there's a course going, would you like to do that rather than coming for life coaching, considering your circumstance right now.

And it was quite clever because he obviously realized I got a package, so I needed to both do something with the money and it worked. And I mean, I've never looked back. How I got involved in trauma was when I realized that even coaching wasn't enough. It wasn't tapping into the depths of what I was actually feeling or what I was sensing in others. Because I've always had that sense when I have been of sober mind of that there is something going on in someone else. So intuitively, my intuition has improved hugely actually.

And then I started on the trauma journey. So I started working with TRE, which is a trauma release process. I also did a coaching course around, it's called quantum energy coaching, it's healing trauma. And now I do a process called life alignment, which also works with trauma, which works on your physical body, as well as your emotional, mental, spiritual. So what I've done is I've put a bag together that's...

helps people understand that our behavior is the surface. It's just a response, a reaction. There's actually something else underneath. And once we understand that that little child at the age of 17, who was not hugged, or maybe 17, and needed to be hugged, has created a pattern. Or, my mother, my father, my whoever, we've had the patterns coming down the line.

So we've learned, a lot of it is learned behavior. So learned behavior can unlearn and really learn something new. So I really do believe that people who've gone through trauma, I'm talking about in space of how people have taught them to think and be.

there's definitely help in terms of coaching and getting people through that. When someone's gone through an absolute horrific event, they would obviously need to see somebody else in terms of a counselor first, but I can definitely help them with how to make sense of the process after that. And how to let their bodies work it out because we're not just this thing here.

In fact, that mind has got a very tiny little bit of who we really are and we think it drives, and we give all the power there to our ego to let it drive us. And actually we so much more. And our physical process is a way of releasing. So, I mean, it's quite simple. I mean, if you've gone through an experience where you've got a huge fright for some reason, you'll notice your body will start shaking and that's a natural response. It's not because there's something wrong with you.

If it shakes for 24 hours, maybe go and have a look and see if there's something wrong. But if your body's responding to an environment or reacting to an environment, it's what it's meant to do. That's what our nervous system is about. I mean, you taste something that's a cold drink, you taste that it's cold, immediately you can feel it. If it's hot, you know. So that's how we react to everything in our lives. So learning to let go in the physical sense. And it's quite simple.

It's an exercise that can be done, that can be researched quite easily. It's Dr. David Basili brought it to being. The process is TRE, Trauma Release Exercise. That's just something simple for people to look at themselves if they want to work with themselves, although we would always suggest that they work with a practitioner or a provider. And in my case, I bring that into my coaching spaces. So I teach you how to look after yourself first.

and then we have a look and see what else we can help you with. Yeah, that's it.

Hamish (30:30)
Brilliant. I will put TRE in the notes. I'm just trying to think, how did your relationships change from 31st of December 1997? What kind of things have changed and how did you make sense of that change?

Marléne Nunes (30:50)
Okay, so let's put it this way, my contact list is very full. The amount of people that contact me? Very small. So what happens is you learn that there were people that were your friends but they weren't. Or they can't deal with a new version of you because that's what happens. It's not a new version, it's actually who you really are. But you've been, I have been putting out a space of this is my picture, love me. And when you're not doing that anymore.

And coming from someone who always used to say like it is, now there's no filters, it just comes out. So that definitely changed that. So the people that are in my life now, I know and trust as being my friends. They're not there because of the fact that I can buy them dinner and a couple of these amounts of wine.

It changed my marriage. I went through some really tough times with my husband. In fact, I should maybe say he went through some tough times with me because he also had to have a look at his habits and how they were impacting on me. So a few times I've had to stand up and say, I can't do this in this house, please. Because of my choices, I'm sorry, I'm impacting on you, but I can't have alcohol in the house. I can't have this in the house. So now we've come to an agreement.

that when he needs to do something he goes and does it and it doesn't mean that I don't socialize with him but when I know it's going to be a drunk, debauched space I don't go because I don't get angry with people then. So it did change that, it changed my choices. In terms of people from the past I have picked up the phone and had my conversations with them about how I felt and what I had done and how complicit I was in things breaking down.

And the response is not always what you would like it to be. It's amazing how people think I didn't have a problem. I'm like, where have you been? But they were on their side of the fence. They didn't see that so much. So maybe I was a really good actress. So I think, having said that, the friends I make now, I tell them so they know.

Because it's amazing how many people say, just have one, just have one. And I had to learn how to be resilient and saying, having one of those is like taking a bullet and shooting me through the head. Because that would be the same. I don't think you'd like that. And I mean, that's a bit harsh when I say things. As I said, I am that direct. Once, in all these years, somebody came to me the other day and she said, I never for one moment realized.

how much it must impact on you to be the only sober person at the table.

That's happened once. And I can't tell you how much that meant just to be seen for five seconds.

But that's what I'm saying. So those kinds of friends you keep, right? You hold them dear and you love them.

Hamish (33:49)
Yes, you don't need many people like that, but you do need some people like that, don't you?

Marléne Nunes (33:53)
I was very fortunate in that a friend of mine that I used to drink with

A year later she stopped and we ended up walking the Camino together and if she ever watches this she knows who she is.

I think.

She did have a beer one night and I said, I can't stand the smell. And she respected me enough to not have another one. It was quite interesting because I'm a vegan, so we had to find vegan restaurants and she drank non -alcoholic beer. So there's the funny side of it as well. So sometimes it's had a good overspore on the people around me too, because they've also changed their habits, which I'm very respectful of. And...

commend them for. Not that I may do a change or anyone else change. That was choice.

Hamish (34:41)
People do see that magic, don't they? They do see that your eyes glow, you're alive. I remember looking in the mirror when I was drinking and there was just this soulless orbs looking back at me. There was no sparkle, there was no life. I'm aligned, you're so aligned with your purpose and what's important to you and your heart. And in that space, people see it. And as you said, the friends who were manipulating you or requiring you to do X, Y, Z or drinking with you,

They don't like it. Not true friends anyway, sham friends rather than champagne. Yeah. So that's, that's great. And then, as you said, your friend making that effort for you, she's seen how you've changed and how you've, you've blossomed. And that's, most people want that. Most people want to be.

more aligned with their purpose and what is important to them. And that's how you operate. I mean, it's very obvious and it's super empowering. Yeah.

Marléne Nunes (35:49)
And I mean, the thing is, love, there are still decisions to make. It still gets tough. I still get angry. I still get all of those things. I still get really sad about things. But now at least I know it's real.

Hamish (36:02)
Yeah, absolutely.

Marléne Nunes (36:03)
Before I was in the hole and I just got myself worse. I mean, when people said I was depressed, I probably wasn't. I was just drunk and depressed.

And that's, and then, you know, as I said earlier, you take the symbols and you feel better. You've got no headache, you're on a buzz and you're cool. But you're not. So.

Hamish (36:22)
Yeah.

Marléne Nunes (36:23)
It's interesting that you said about the mirror because I used to wear makeup and I don't even know if you may recall that I used to wear makeup. Yes, you would have because you've taken pictures for profile pictures before. I stopped wearing makeup because now I can really see myself. I don't have to paint myself up to look any different because I'm real. This is me.

Thank you.

Hamish (36:50)
Brilliant. I think you're remarkable. And I think what you've done and how you show people what you've done is just super. I want to wind back to early 2018 when you had removed your coping strategy. How did you respond to emotions and feelings and all that kind of stuff that you had buried under in the bottom of that bottle of wine or whatever you were drinking?

Marléne Nunes (37:17)
I mean, lock myself up in another, another Vipassana retreat. I did that quite often, because that was me and me, and then it's nightmares and it's all kinds of things that come out. But mostly I walked and I spoke. I spoke it out. So the same friend that did the Kamino with me, she's not a therapist of any kind, but she learned, because she asked me, what do you need? I said nothing. I just need you to...

to keep quiet and hear me, that's all. You don't have to respond, just let me get it out. And I take my hat off to her, she did some really ugly things that she didn't know about me and it needed to come out. And yes, I also used my colleagues in terms of peer sessions, but mostly I kept my own counsel.

and I learned to release it through theory and through journaling. By writing down the parts that are those cringe moments, I would actually write them down and who I felt what about. And then if the person was dead, that I felt something, I would just talk it out. Fortunately, I had my own office that I could close the door and do soundproof and I could talk about it to this person that wasn't there anymore. So I learned to...

to voice it because for so long I had to suppress myself, suppress my voice. I was born at that time of, you know, the era, the patriarchy where women had to be kept small. I started in the workspace like that. So I had a lot of throat chakra issues and I still do, I still cough a lot. Okay, but I learned to talk it out. My husband wasn't able to cope with it.

So what I would say to him is, I'm not okay. I'm just, I'm gonna withdraw. And then he'd be fine. The most important thing that we did have is that I would have to say to him, it's not about you. It's not something you've done. I need to remove myself from this situation. And it took a while for him to understand. Now he still gets it, because it still comes up. There's still stuff that goes, then I'm sitting there thinking I can't tell you the story, but I need to get it out.

And I can't tell him because I don't want to hurt him.

But I can go and tell somebody else. I can go and write it in a journal so I'm not going to hurt anyone else. I can make an appointment with somebody that I know, like a person who does what I do, another coach, a therapist, a supervision session or something like that. Find a therapist and talk it out. And that's how I get it out.

I'm also very aware that the feelings that I feel now I'm able to now pin it back and go, it's got nothing to do with the stuff that's happening now. This goes way back, so maybe I need to deal with that. So the awareness that I've always been very comfortable with being aware of my own stuff inside, not so comfortable talking it out. But actually the session I had before this...

The woman said to me, she said, you extremely self aware. And I don't mean that in a, like I'm a big shot, but self aware of what's going on inside of me. So I've got that gift and the gift has been amplified without any drugs or alcohol.

So if you have the creative arts in you, that's a good one. That will get it out. Yeah. I've seen a few people that I know painting stents and then sketching, baking. I cook a lot, which I never used to do before. I cook when I'm working through something because what did I do before? I would drink. So now I, so it's almost like finding a substitute, something that's healthier for you and for me.

So Cook, my husband's happy. He doesn't get the the the rap coming out of my mouth. He gets food that's sort of edible. And I'm happy I'm done. I've sorted my stuff out. I play live music sometimes. I'll sing sometimes. I listen to podcasts. But what I do is that's distraction. And I need to say that. That's all distraction. When I actually work on it is after that. So when I'm able to sit and be quiet. Okay, now you've done all of that.

What are you actually feeling?

And if that came across in a way that is helpful to anyone.

Hamish (41:34)
I think that's very helpful because it is, isn't it? It's feeling, thinking, appreciating that those are messages. They're not you. They're just coming through you, experiencing. Yeah, make sense of them. And then once they've gone through, as you said, dive deeper into it. I think that is a brilliant way of doing it.

Marléne Nunes (41:56)
I think there is one thing I'd like to add and that is, you know, there's a lot of hype about cold water immersion at the moment and our nervous systems. So if you are someone that has chosen the route of sobriety and you are struggling, if you could put yourself in cold water for a couple of minutes a day, it will make a big difference in your life.

because it really does shock you into wow I'm alive and I'm grateful for being alive. So if you have the advantage of having a big body of water near you or you only have the cold shower,

It's definitely something that helps me and helps a lot of people that I know.

Hamish (42:42)
I am so running out of excuses. Even turning it down a little bit makes me shudder. When I have a cold shower, I'm just like, so I'm just gonna have to get over that, aren't I, and do it.

Marléne Nunes (42:47)
Thank you.

Or you can just go and stand outside naked and hope you don't get arrested because that would be enough. You'd freeze yourself. At least where I live it's warm.

Hamish (42:58)
I'm out.

Yeah, it's summer here in England at the moment. So it's about 18 degrees. So it's yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't die of frostbite at night during the day.

Let's dive into the feelings a little bit more. Can you explain how you deal with feelings and emotions as they crop up?

Marléne Nunes (43:20)
Sure.

I guess we've...

As from an early age we are taught that a feeling that we're experiencing has a label. So we see anger played out around us quite easily, we see sadness, we experience physical hurt and then somebody will explain to us that that has some kind of relevance in emotion. But it's just a connection. What actually happens in terms of emotion,

and I think that's where I got the aha moment, was that when I'm not loving, I'm doing all the other things. So then I'm hating, I'm fearful, I'm scared, I'm sad, I'm angry, I'm... I'm not talking about angry because someone cut me off. Well, that's even not an anger thing. That might be where I'm trying to control a space.

because it's here for a purpose and everything is here and somebody takes something away and I get maybe angry. That's a surface level thing. What I'm talking about is this thing that churns up inside of you and just comes out at the wrong moment, the most inappropriate moment. But because it's inappropriate at that time doesn't mean that you're not feeling that. So I've learned to, and I teach my clients this, that when this emotion comes,

gurgling out here, whatever that may be, and we don't have to give the label. But for the purposes of people understanding, it could be deep hurt, deep sadness, deep anger, deep fear, resentment, shame, guilt, all of those. Where is this actually coming from? Because something in my environment is triggering me and this person in front of me is getting the brunt of it. So how do I deal with that? Because I'm actually feeling that. So I understood what was going on is I'm feeling that towards myself.

for starters, because I let myself down at some point. And that's an emotion I needed to deal with. Like, okay, I didn't love myself enough. And instead of beating myself up about that, I thought, okay, I need to teach myself and others how to love themselves.

And that's a huge task because the way you would interpret that and the way anyone else would interpret that is completely different because my version of what I need and your version of what you need is completely different. So that would mean I would need to understand how to love myself.

So it's simple, you write down at the top of the page. In order to feel loved, what needs to be present? And I encourage you to please not use the word need, because need creates dependency.

And I used to put need there, but it creates dependency. So what needs to be present? I've just done it again. Okay. So in order to feel loved...

What would I like in my life?

And then have a look and see how I do that. I have a look and I go, okay, I would like to be respected. That would be nice. I would be great if somebody listened to me. I need to be fed maybe, as in intellectually, stimulated intellectually.

Physical stimulation perhaps, because that can also be an area where very often an addict or an alcoholic would step into in a space of where there's more pain in the physical side of life, the sexual side. Because it's no longer about, because you could, I mean, let's face it, you don't know who you are. So how can you allow anyone to love you and you can't love yourself? So some of us, and myself included here.

I've had to sit with that, how I haven't loved myself, how I've hated myself enough to do that in order to try and find some love. So I think the emotions that come with it is now the plaster is off.

And you don't... it's not about saying it's red so it must be this or it's green so it must be that. It's what do I actually feel here. It's painful. And would the bandaid work or is there something else?

It's like putting a plaster on a broken ankle. It needs to be reset. So it's the same thing. It's like resetting ourselves, letting go of... And forgiveness. I think forgiveness, I think that's the biggest thing actually. Is to forgive yourself, forgive others for being part of it and enabling you because they didn't know any different either. We all just blundered along, right?

And forgiveness means I love myself. Because if I can't love myself, I can't forgive myself. I can't forgive you, I can't forgive anyone else. And I'm not forgiving you for something that you're doing, anyone else. I'm forgiving them for not knowing any difference.

I don't know if that answers your question.

Hamish (48:23)
Yep, absolutely. It's behavior, isn't it? It is behavior. Yeah, just and that's that's all it is. And then with an awareness, you can go, hmm, that behavior wasn't very good. And then you can change it. I'm an absolute advocate that any apology without a behavioral change is a lie. You know, I'm sorry, I hit you, darling. I won't do it again. Slap. I'm sorry, darling. I hit you. I won't do it again. It's a lie.

Marléne Nunes (48:27)
Mm.

Thank you.

Mm.

Hamish (48:52)
And it's, yeah.

Marléne Nunes (48:55)
Yeah, it's like a promise. A promise means nothing actually. It's the same.

Hamish (48:56)
Hang on.

I want to wind back and you said you were looking back at cringe moments. How do you look back at those cringe moments and don't go, I was an idiot. I was a fool. That was appalling of me. I'm such a bad person. How do you look back at what you've done in the past and make sense of it and be able to, as you said, forgive yourself?

Marléne Nunes (49:25)
That's been quite difficult, I'll be honest. Because it is easy to just go, how could you? What were you thinking? And I think in saying that often enough, I got the message that actually I wasn't thinking. So it's like watching a movie. If I were to analyze the person's behavior in the movie.

I'd be able to understand what's going on there. So if by making sense, I mean there's one particular one that comes up a lot and I was very drunk and yet I remember because the person reminded me of it the next day. And I often used to think about it and wonder if that's why our friendship didn't work. We had a bit of a full -out in friendships. But that particular one...

affects me quite a lot and because it is a an area where that's a gray area it's pretty that way and without divulging my dark secrets here but the thing that that stood out for me in this particular incident was I was looking for

someone to actually just acknowledge me. So it was the pain in myself that created pain in someone else.

and in that cringeworthy moment it stayed with me all this time for me to understand that every action on my side has some kind of reaction on the other side. So it's taught me to pause.

before I act on something because I could have damaged this person. He was very young, I could have really messed it up completely.

And fortunately, my friends say, hey, what do you think you're doing?

So for that I thank her. At the time I had no clue what was going on. Now I understand.

that maybe that part of me that was...

trying to connect to the youth in me that had also gone through some stuff.

and.

I think when there's a cringeworthy moment, and it'll come for all of us, it does, is to actually bring that to the fore and actually come to someone like me.

to allow yourself to be vulnerable and talk about it. Because it was only in the, in fact, I think I've spoken about this once in a therapy session. And now that you've brought it up again, I'm going to be honest with you. It is something that I will use again in a therapy session. Because there's still residue, otherwise it wouldn't come up. And that's one thing I have learned. When I can tell the story without, and you saw what happened now, well, you heard it, I struggled to get the words out. So when I'm struggling to do that, I understand that there's still some, some.

there is still something that needs to be resolved and not because I'm right or because I'm wrong or because I was bad or I was out of hand or there's some pain there that hasn't had time to heal and healing is the biggest thing in this whole journey.

Hamish (52:19)
Brilliant. Thank you for that. Yeah. When I look back and I was driving drunk and I would throw the empty bottles out of the window, count one, two, three, thud, it got to the grass, didn't smash. One, two, crash, hit the side of the road. And I wince about that. That's cringe. But I realize I was doing that because I didn't want to be found having empty bottles of booze at home. That was more shameful than...

throwing the bottles out and having someone trip over it and cut themselves or animals or whatever. And it is, it is, there is a lot of, is shame there, but there is also an awareness that I was doing the least painful thing for me. Bugger everybody else, it was about me. I was keeping myself safe and then the shame comes in. Then I realized I couldn't do better than that.

Marléne Nunes (53:06)
Yes.

Hamish (53:18)
So I have to change my behavior. And I love what you said about earlier on, you said about writing it down and talking about it because we keep shame somewhere. I don't know where we keep it. You're the, you're the body person. When you talk about it, shine a light on it. Shame just...

Marléne Nunes (53:29)
Thank you.

Thank you.

Hamish (53:36)
And it's so lovely when you can just say, hey, yeah, I did some awful things, but I don't do it anymore and I'm sorry for it. I've forgiven myself because I was, that was the best I could do. And you're, you're sharing it and it just, it's like opening a, opening a door or opening a window, the light comes in, the darkness has gone. So it's getting rid of that shame is really powerful.

But it's embarrassing to have to admit things.

Marléne Nunes (54:03)
The thing with emotions is that they have energy. So there's a guy, Dr. David, I'm looking up there, DL Hawkins or David Hawkins, he wrote a book with or he devised a way of actually measuring the vibrational.

the state of vibration in terms of emotion. And shame is one of the lowest. In fact, it is the low. The next one is apathy, and apathy means I'm gonna kill myself, which we've all got some kind of story about that too. And I also have a story about that, but I mean, I'm not gonna bring that in here, but it is a very low vibration emotion. So I think the message out there is when you're feeling something that's dragging you down to the ground, it's time to shake it off.

because that's when you're bringing yourself into, okay, maybe I can move forward, as you said, and find the courage to do something so that I can find excitement and joy, because joy is a choice. So I get to have joy now in my life. I get to feel peaceful. I get to feel loved. I get to feel accepted. And these are things I give myself.

And so too can everyone else. Without doing anything but just changing how you feel. I make a decision.

It all starts with decision.

Hamish (55:25)
doesn't it? We always have choices. And I don't think everyone appreciates that. And I think it's very difficult. I know when I got to my rock bottom, I had two choices, which actually was remarkable. There was no, am I people pleasing? Am I doing this? What about this? What about this? It was absolutely...

bugger everybody else. Do I want to live? Do I want to die? I had binary choices. And we always have choices. We can stay in that abusive relationship or we can leave. We can stop drinking or we can carry on drinking. Doesn't mean it's gonna be easy. Yeah, it does not mean it's gonna be easy, but I think as soon as we realize...

everything that we do or don't do is a choice. We're beginning to self -empower ourselves, aren't we? We're beginning to take back a bit of agency. And I think that's really important that we can go, yeah, I've got a choice here. I'm going to stay. I'm going to go. I'm going to do this. I'm not going to do that. Yeah.

Marléne Nunes (56:34)
Well that way it's also taking responsibility because I'm making a choice for me and the outcome is as a result of the choice I've made but I'm actually owning it. Where before that's exactly what happens but we don't own it. So then it's I had too much to drink when actually it's not I chose to.

Hamish (56:52)
Yep.

Marléne Nunes (56:53)
we don't see it like that. no no you forced me to you brought out another bottle. Yeah all that kind of stuff. There's a lot to be said about the freedom.

Hamish (57:00)
Yeah.

Marléne Nunes (57:06)
That choice gives us.

and I think I came from a Catholic background so I had a different idea about freedom and I'm not knocking anyone out out there. I now have a very different spiritual view on freedom and choice and actually every single thing is a choice. There is nothing in our lives that isn't.

And I think that's the one thing that came through very strongly for me in my life. No blaming.

Hamish (57:27)
Yeah.

Do you think people are spiritual?

Marléne Nunes (57:39)
We are spiritual first and then we come here to be physical and then we don't quite understand. There's a reason we don't remember everything.

Do I think all people are spiritual? I think we all have the ability to be spiritual. No? Not right either? Okay. Let's find the right words.

Yeah, the simple answer would be yes. The more complicated answer would be...

We come as a spiritual being in the physical sense to embody our physical sense. And at some point we disconnect from the spiritual because we're here to learn. That's my belief system. And then we have a bit of a change. And at some point where we wake up and go, hold on a minute, there's more to life. What am I doing here? Why am I here? Why is this all happening?

And I think it's when we start questioning that the spirituality that we were connected to and have been all along becomes a little louder. The voice gets a little louder in your head or the people arrive in your life that help you to get there. It's also knowing because I think when, for me at least it was, I've always known there's something more and my mother told me just keep quiet don't tell other people because if you do they're gonna think you're crazy.

So that's how it started. I'm like, okay, cool, chip. And then, bless her soul, she knew no difference, because that's what she'd experienced, right? So then I kept it all in my head and thought I was crazy. Then I got delusional about it. And now I'm in a space where I think I can see it in others.

which is great, because we've all got it. And if you listen nowadays, people are saying things a lot more aligned with spirituality. They may not even realize that they're saying it, but they're saying it. And I think this process allows us as human beings, physical human beings, to get closer to our spiritual higher selves, or our soul, because our soul's intention certainly wasn't to go through...

Well, maybe it was. To experience all the shit first. To get to the wonderful stuff. And the wonderful stuff doesn't mean it comes in a gift that gets delivered by Take a Lot or Amazon. It's nothing like that. It's just being happy with who you are inside. If it were only that easy, but it's not. Okay, so it's just understanding, hey, I'm being here trying to understand what the hell is happening. And I'm okay with that.

Hamish (1:00:08)
Hmm.

Hmm.

Marléne Nunes (1:00:14)
relax and laugh a little.

Hamish (1:00:14)
wonderful. I love that. Do you think we get little, little "Presents"? I know you said Amazon and Take- a -Lot. I think we get little presents along the way just to sort of remind us we're going the right direction. And Carl Jung called those synchronicities. And do you do you explain synchronicities to people just in case that people aren't aware of?

Marléne Nunes (1:00:44)
So I think the common way of understanding that would be coincidence and there's no such thing. It's a coincidence. So two energies arrive at the same place at the same time intentionally and you didn't even know that it was intentionally. It changes the journey or the trajectory of your life synchronicity.

It's those moments when you meet someone who's either got the same story as you and you're able to shift through it. Like here, for instance, it can also mean that...

There's that moment in time when love...

shifted for you because of somebody, something, an environmental change happening. There's something that struck me now that I maybe needed to say and that is that there was, I was on a journey where I was walking in Portugal. I was very blessed to be able to be there and I knew on a particular day we were going to leave Portugal and I said to my friend, we can't leave today. And she said, what do you mean? I said, no, we're going to walk somewhere else today.

So she, what do you mean? I said, no, we're going off the path, we're going somewhere else. And I just had a very long story short, I got so many little pictures in that day. And I shared them with her, fortunately, as we were going along the day. And that evening, I got a message to say that a loved one had passed. And guess where he came from? Portugal. So to me, I understood why we didn't get the space, and we didn't, we didn't get a space on the ferry across to Spain. And there was a reason for that. So that synchronicity, it was...

made something personal to me.

And sometimes that's all it is. It's that it just shows you that you're at the right place, the right time, you've met the right people. For whatever reason that is, that alchemy changes your life.

that combination changes your life and can be in any spaces. I think nature is a great revealer of synchronicity.

in that often walking nature and I know that you do too but but when you notice a bird or and he's just looking at you and when you look up you could have fallen into a hole or you could have I mean that's if that's not a gift then I don't know.

You know, when you're rushing out the back door and you're like, I'm in a hurry. Why is everybody in the way? Say thank you. In a way, because they're preventing you from doing something. So that to me is, and that's not synchronicity in a way people can understand it though. But just be grateful for those moments because that's preventing you from being somewhere else where things could have been different. And I strongly believe that.

Hamish (1:03:30)
Yep, I completely agree. And it is, it is, isn't it? They're just little things. I mean, I think of my journey for this podcast, it was, I've wanted to do it for a long time and there were various things in the way and I let them go. I changed one or two things and in the space of a month, this materialized and I had four guests recorded. And every person I spoke to said, this is important, do this. And things are lined up.

Marléne Nunes (1:03:58)
Happy.

Hamish (1:04:00)
You just one after another. It's almost like having a funnel. Next, next, not you're on the right path. You're on the right path. Absolutely incredible. And, you know, I'm not after external validation and all this lot anymore, quite so much. But this was just like a you're on the right path. And it's that's my gift from take a while, take a lot a little, a little reminder that yes, you're doing you go in the right direction. I think that's, that's really empowering when you're trying to make sense of something.

Marléne Nunes (1:04:04)
Right. Right.

Hamish (1:04:30)
So you're sobering up and a friend gives you a big hug and said, well done, I've just got sober. And you thought, Jesus, I didn't know that. And things like that, it lifts you up. It puts a raft underneath your feet when you need it. So I think it's really powerful.

Marléne Nunes (1:04:30)
happy.

I think for many, many years we've all been aware of the negative feedback in the field. And when I say the field, I mean people around us, energy around us, where there's something to be said for just looking for the positive feedback. And I'm saying positive, but I'm not negating the negative. What I mean by that is that the feedback tells you what's happening. And that's the...

spiritual energy, the synchronicity, when something is at the right time, the right place, it falls into place.

She'd asked my husband this question. He met me on the road down to Cap Town at a petrol station. And then he tried to keep me, not there, he tried to hold onto me as much as he could and he couldn't. Because I was like, kept on breaking away. Look at me now, we've been married for, I don't know, he remembers. I think it's 15 years. And if it wasn't for him providing me the space to be who I am, I possibly would not have got through this journey.

because he worried about the stuff, if I still had to worry about that I would not have made it. So that's synchronicity too.

Hamish (1:05:57)
Isn't it?

Yeah, and for those people who don't know, it's about a thousand miles or 1600 kilometers between Cape Town and Johannesburg. So there's an awful lot of petrol stations.

Marléne Nunes (1:06:04)
Thanks.

Yeah, exactly. And that's it. Technically, I think it's halfway. I think it is halfway. Yeah.

Hamish (1:06:15)
Wow, well, Marléne, that has been an absolutely incredible conversation. I think we've touched on some really, really interesting things. There's one thing I wanted to ask you about. You mentioned this, what do I need in my life? And then saying that's, you know, that's the unhealthy side of it. I picture it as a knife edge and on one side you've got needs and wants and on the other side,

Marléne Nunes (1:06:15)
Yeah.

Hamish (1:06:44)
you've got exactly the same, it's still the same thing going down the middle, but you've got desire as in heart -centred desire, or maybe serving. So this side is all about me, I need, and this side is all about empowering. So it's the same energy, but just with a different intention. And for me, that's kind of how I look at what I'm doing and thinking. Am I doing it from need, or am I doing it from...

Marléne Nunes (1:07:05)
Thanks.

Hamish (1:07:14)
empowering others or empowering myself. And I think that that helps me make sense of decisions when I'm not sure of my of my motives or what I'm doing.

Marléne Nunes (1:07:27)
But it's about not thinking, it's feeling. It's opening the heart.

I mean there's been a lot of studies about that but the heart stuff is what actually matters. When you make, I mean the language gives us that, the heartfelt decisions. And it really is that, it's heartfelt decisions. And then those are the ones that change your life, change other people's lives.

So this what you're doing now is, you know what, if one person hears this, one of your podcasts, and it can touch one person, then from your heart to that person, that's what matters. Because maybe that one person can touch another and another and another. And so it duplicates, multiplies out there. If you want to take that into a religious sense for people that do the loaf thing and the fish, it's the same. It's weak.

It's not saying, okay, I'm going to help you to stop something. It's giving people opportunity to understand that they can sink into their own hearts as well. Give to themselves and to others and it doesn't feel like giving them. It really doesn't. Does it? Does it feel like giving to you?

doing what you authentically were meant to do.

Hamish (1:08:45)
Thank you very much for today. A couple of questions. How can people find out more about you?

Marléne Nunes (1:08:51)
Well, I have a website which is self and more so that's all about yourself and so much more. .co .za not .com .co .za On Instagram it's my name without the accent. So it's Marlene Nunes Coach. Facebook, I'm also on Facebook personally. LinkedIn. But the easiest way to get hold of me is via my website because there is a 15 minute

booking slot there and 15 minutes can give you 15 minutes with me just to maybe talk about how you're feeling and what your next step but otherwise yeah I guess Facebook and synchronicity.

Hamish (1:09:37)
lovely. Well, I think that 15 minutes, that's a free call, isn't it? It's a gift that you give to anyone who just

Marléne Nunes (1:09:43)
Absolutely, yes. And what I will say is if somebody does use Book That 15 minutes, please show it for yourself, not for me, because it really is for you.

Hamish (1:09:56)
Well, I think what you do for people is quite remarkable. It really is. You help me in my time of need make sense of things and put down foundations to help me get through what I was struggling with. We had incredible conversations about all sorts of things and it was so tremendously helpful.

It really, really was. And I thank you ever so much for that because it was, yeah, it helped save my life. It helped me put those foundations down to get over my drinking and to work out ways of coping, new coping mechanisms and looking at those scary emotions and those things and realizing that when I was angry, it wasn't just anger, it might've been sadness or grief because I thought there were four emotions.

So yeah, so really, really amazing. Thank you. And one last question. What is your superpower? What superpower did you get from your awakening?

Marléne Nunes (1:10:59)
the ability to create safety for others. I think that's, yeah, it's being grounded with, and I'm actually not a grounded person, but when I'm with people to be able to help bring the vibration down so we can all ground, so we can be vulnerable.

Hamish (1:11:17)
super. That is incredibly powerful. And that's what you helped me when I needed it. So yeah, Marléne, thank you. Thank you for today. Thank you for your wisdom. Thank you for your gift and your service. And thank you for this amazing conversation that we've had today.

Marléne Nunes (1:11:37)
Thank you Hamish and thank you for inviting me here and also for the ways you've helped me. So thank you. I really enjoyed it and I would love to, if you feel like I can add any other value at some point, please tap on my buttons and I'll be here.

Hamish (1:11:51)
Brilliant. Thank you very much.

Marléne Nunes (1:11:53)
Thank you.

Hamish Niven (1:11:55)
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious. If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for their own journey. I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast platform as well, that helps me reach more people. All the important links and information are in the show notes below. Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.