The Crucible:Conversations for the Curious

Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for
the Curious.

I'm Hamish, your host.

In each episode you'll hear from everyday
people who've been through profound life

altering experiences, from life
threatening illnesses or accidents, deep

existential crisis, addiction, or having
to make life choices that have ultimately

brought them peace, connection and
purpose.

They've all stared into the abyss, walked
through the fire of their own personal

dark nights of the soul, and emerged from
the other side transformed.

This podcast is for anyone going through
an awakening, a time of massive change, or

questioning the

meaning of life.

You are not alone.

You can get through this.

I promise you life is more meaningful and
beautiful on the other side.

Today we are talking with Rory.

Rory's kindly come to join us and share
his awakening and the journey of his life

and what he's doing.

So hi Rory.

Thank you very much for joining us today.

Hi Hamish, thank you very much for
inviting me and I'm really pleased to be

here because I love this topic of, or this
feeling of sense of awakenings.

I like what you brought to that, bring to
this because it's very much something that

we don't necessarily think of at the time
around things that have kind of happened,

happening to us or...

or happened to us, or these words we use
for life experiences and often just caught

up in the moment, whether it's a good
moment or a bad moment or a difficult

moment, and then there's that reflective
going, or what happened there?

And it's the idea, I like that idea of
exploring it from a point of view of...

What can we learn, I guess, if that's
the...

absolutely.

Cool, well let's start off.

What is your awakening?

What happened in your life that made you
change, either have to change or realise

something needed to be different in your
life?

Tell me about that process where things
required you to change.

Wow, yes.

So around my early 20s, in fact it was
going into my 20s, I was at a phase in my

life where I had, I felt like just before
this point that happened for me, I felt

like, wow, I'm...

I'm experiencing an awakening.

I thought I was experiencing an awakening
in a positive way because I'd come out of

school, I'd come out of understanding what
I perceived myself to be, learning through

school and receiving results and going,
I'm more of an artist, I'm more of a

creative kind of person.

I did have resentment for the way the
grades at school said that, you know, this

is a particular type of intelligence and
this is the only type of intelligence and

this is what you get to understand about
the world and this is the focus, this is

what all of life's learnings are all about
is how you can prove yourself in a

particular way and that was...

that I couldn't show up in an exam and
recall that quickly.

And I was left feeling misunderstood
around that process of not that I didn't

really care as such.

I didn't care that in a conscious way that
that matters.

I just thought, what I didn't realise was
I was choosing for it to teach me.

that that's the way I was, that I was not
like that.

And I was, I was more of a, I'd say
misfit, but someone that didn't really fit

into what society perceived as intelligent
or normally communicative.

I didn't believe I was a communicator.

I didn't believe I was like assertive in
that way in verbal communication, in

processing information.

And I just leaned into music.

I just became

had a love of music so I started to learn
guitar and I just found a joy in playing

guitar over and over again and over and
over and over again playing it, playing it

every day just because I just wanted to
play guitar and saw myself, I guess I saw

myself wanting to wanting to be the best I
could be at guitar because so that's what

I did and I went over and over and over
again got fanatical with it.

And then I got into bands and out of bands
and didn't know how to communicate my

ideas as such, but I just went along with
it and was creative in bands and then they

sort of split up.

And then I kind of got into dance music
and self -expression through dance.

And I didn't know what that was all about
other than just, I loved doing it.

So I just went and did it.

Then it came to a head because there was a
lot of...

sucked into kind of recreational drug use
as well alongside it.

I didn't feel addicted to it, but at the
same time it was there and it sort of

enhanced situations.

But what I didn't realise it was doing was
changing my brain chemicals and getting me

used to that being the normal way to enjoy
myself.

And so that in itself also led me to a
crux in my life where as a breakup, I

didn't know how to explain my emotions.

and I didn't know how to communicate or I
didn't automatically forgive.

I was a natural sage sort of personality
that could just go away and just be

enjoying myself playing music.

And I didn't know how to, I just forgave
the situation for what it was, but I

didn't really realise I wasn't, I wasn't
forgiving myself at all.

And I just thought I was broken because I
didn't know how to explain it.

I didn't know that that was the how to
explaining it was one of the keys in which

was keeping it there or making it worse.

So I went into a period of psychosis at
that point.

So going from this phase of, wow, the
world is opening up and the world is

possibilities and learning about
spirituality and going, I could like...

you know, focus on things and manifest
things or meet people.

And I'm so excited about the rest of my
life and what could be possible to hitting

rock bottom and thinking that I was broken
and I didn't, I had a thread that I was

going to be okay because it wasn't, it was
kind of almost felt like it was forced in

some way.

It wasn't like I was meant to become
mentally ill as such.

just felt like at that point I didn't know
how to get out of it.

And I knew that it was possibly possible
to get out of, but I just thought it was

going round in a loop.

Is this my life now?

Have I broken my mind and my emotions?

And so therefore, that's where...

I went through a positive awakening of
like, wow, what's going to be amazing,

what's possible to I feel like I'm, I'm,
I'm broken and I don't know what to do.

So then, then luckily my mother had was,
was very good at studying natural

medicines and things like that.

So she had learned reflexology at that
point.

And so.

I had 14 weeks of reflexology and within a
period of a moment where there was about a

week where I didn't sleep and my eye was
flickering and I was zoning in and out of

trying to sleep here and there but not
really falling asleep.

And that was the pinnacle moment where I
didn't know what was gonna happen.

And then I was offered this treatment
and...

went for it, started to relax, started to,
I got worse before I got better in the

first few weeks, but then started to level
out and started to relax.

My nervous system started to regulate and
therefore within 14 weeks I was back to

smiling and happy again and wondering
what, whether that was, what was going to

happen and then just had more like this
idea.

I never got diagnosed with the psychosis
and ever got diagnosed with PTSD, but I

can certainly say that I feel like from
feedback from others and talking to others

and just studying health ever since then,
that was the trigger.

That was the trigger to be awakening into
understand wanting to understand the mind,

the body and health in general to see what
else is possible to change.

And that's what I love about that phrase
is.

What else is possible to change?

And that's been my life ever since.

So I would say that that's the most deep
awakening that I've had ever since.

That's, that's, that's quite incredible.

So it, it, it began from not fitting that
normal in school where it's all about IQ,

that is your intelligence.

and obviously that, that then for one of a
better description that broke you.

and then it was just a case of just sort
of going around wondering what to do.

and making sense of things slowly, but
tell me a bit about.

bit more about your mom and that and what
she was doing with you, the reflexology,

the all that kind of thing, because that
that obviously is where you learn to

listen to your body and understand and
things like that.

Yes.

Yeah, so.

Yeah, at that point I didn't know what it
was going to be like.

I just knew that it was some kind of
physical relaxing treatment where, and it

was, you know, she practiced running
through the sequence.

She just learnt it.

So it was a good way for her to practice
every week doing it.

Within the 14 weeks, I really, I really...

just just started to sleep it was like i
was like instantly asleep by by by the

the first sort of five minutes of the
treatment, each time at that point when I

got into being able to just let go, I was
able to let go and just know that I was

safe I guess and that also that feeling of
unconditional love for it just being there

for me.

I think that that was another major
awareness of this process that happened

for me.

yeah so she she'd also been also been

into things like.

some herbal remedies and things like that
in the past.

We tried out homeopathy and tried out
herbal remedies and tried out many

different things for when I was struggling
with things in school.

I was taken off, very, very young, I was
taken off any colourings and additives.

for instance, that would have evidence of
me kind of going hyperactive afterwards.

And it wasn't necessarily the sugar, but
it was all the E numbers.

So she was really fascinated by all of
that.

So I didn't have any too much processed
foods.

It was all natural.

Sugar was still rife at that point through
my childhood.

So it was actually...

After I went through that and I read a
book called The Peaceful Warrior and that

book explains, it kind of throws in the
idea that sugar is not useful for the body

and I was able to get, I thought, I wonder
if that will help me.

So I off my own back at that point in my
early 20s, going to mid 20s, I just off my

own back decided to...

cut out sugar to help with the healing
process.

And it really did help as well.

So that was another thing that also helped
me with my healing journey as it were

going coming out of that.

And yeah, so I was very thankful for that
process.

It really helped me to go what else is
possible to change.

And then I learned I immediately wanted to
learn massage.

So at the age of

24, I studied anatomy, physiology and
massage and became, started working full

time doing massage.

I did traditional Chinese massage, seated
acupressure, Indian head massage.

And I really liked the chair massage when
people have it in front of people.

So I've always been this kind of person
that likes to do things that...

that's on the floor, on the ground level
of just showing what something new to

think about or do rather than sort of...

How do I put it?

you know, going off on a tangent and only
working with real, really specific people

that have heard of this really specific
niche thing.

So I'd be like, what can I show the
general public that would be useful right

now?

And that would be massage.

And it was, you know, in the mid early
2000s, where, where, yeah, we were just

doing massage on the shop floors of
Selfridges and

House of Fraser and things and airports.

Yeah.

And that must be really interesting
because you were just bringing that to

people and just saying, look, this is,
have a go at this, feel what's it like,

what's it feel for you.

And you're getting curious.

And what were people finding when they
were having these sessions done by you?

What were they finding?

Well, it's interesting because it was
designed to be accessible and with clothes

on and in front of others generally, but
in spaces that are quiet, people would

jump in and some would be very, very much
like, can you do as much as possible in 10

minutes?

I'm just rushing around and it's not
necessary.

It was a challenge for me to be able to
go, right, how can I make the biggest

difference in a shorter space of time?

So I kind of like that.

that energy of just, you know, more faster
techniques and shaking up the space and

then calming it down just with a few
breaths and things like that.

So that's where I loved about it.

Some others would just be like, wow, I
want, can I get more?

40 minutes or something like that.

But yeah, generally, and yeah, working in
clinics doing more longer.

longer treatments as well at points.

And yeah, I just found that I would be
really, really good at sensing where there

would be areas that need work, more work
and others to clear that tension and allow

Buffalo and things to flow in and out
better.

So once I was doing that, yeah, there's
often, often people would be blown away at

those points.

and feeling very relaxed.

However, it's very interesting that
because I still at that point in my life,

I still wasn't necessarily feeling like a
communicator.

As such, I was verbal, nonverbal
communicator using my hands or doing dance

and get, you know, kind of encouraging
people that it's okay to, to get up and

dance, you know.

on a dance floor or something like that by
just doing it myself or without having to

talk that much.

The words weren't coming up.

So that's where I got kind of went through
a physical awakening of getting RSI's from

working really, really hard and repetitive
strain injuries in my wrists.

And I got osteopathy, had osteopathy for
that and got better again from...

those processes and went, that's really
interesting.

What's osteopathy?

And, and I thought that would be the next
level.

By the time I was 32, I wanted to learn
about that because I was getting tired and

I was just going around the same loop of
working really hard, but not necessarily

not knowing how to talk about what the
longer game of that would be.

So people would come in for like,

one or two sessions, get feel, feel great
again, and then go away again and never

call back.

And I wouldn't necessarily know how to
follow up or talk about it all.

So, or, or talk through what would be
useful as a plan, to manage the longer,

longer term.

And that's really from the space of where
I'd come from with that whole thing

building up and the emotional, emotional,
suffering that I went through at those

points or the belief systems that I had at
the time.

Those are the things that create our
reality and create whether we feel fixed

or stuck with a particular health thing or
not as well.

So that's where I was like, I didn't
realise I was fascinated in that and I was

working manually into the manual space,
the physical space.

However, it's become apparent I was like
working more and more towards

understanding how to address the mental
and emotional.

areas to actually really get to the point
of how someone wants to manage themselves

over a longer period of time and create
the habits that they, the new habits that

they want will actually lay down either
maintaining a better sense of health or

even improving it.

That's fascinating because it sounds to me
like you are doing what happened to you.

There was that disconnect and then there
was the very, with your Mum, there was

that very physical, let's call it an
education, which you then mimicked when

you were working with people.

And then it's become broader.

So you've learned a skill and then you've
got very familiar and competent with it.

And then you realise,

I need to add to it.

So you've added that three dimensional,
not just massage and go, but sort of keep

on going and nurturing and making a space
to help people on their journey.

Yeah, so, so I went through this long
period of time doing the physical

treatment, then I moved into osteopathy,
which was kind of working out how to, how

to,

how to help with the manual side of
things, but it started to get into this

whole long -term health picture thing.

Even though a lot of the time when we go
for osteopathy, it's like, something's

come up and I want to get something sorted
in the moment and quickly and done again.

And people don't necessarily think about
going for osteopathy for longer periods to

maintain a sense of...

maintenance or improvement on the longer
term.

And

That's what I love about osteopathy is
it's like the physical, it's the

functional body, it's the holistic
approach to helping the body heal itself

by just being the channel to allow for
what is already innate in someone that may

have got stuck.

And so that's the idea around that and
then the communication part,

communication, communication.

So that's what I loved about it, but it
also...

only opened up a certain level to me of
understanding how to work with the

physical still, the physical body.

And so I came out of that and worked with
that cook for quite a long time and loved

it and started to get a sense of how that
could apply to the longer term picture.

I realised I was still so, so much more
passionate about working from the bigger

vision.

of what health could be like, not just for
a person, but for the world.

And that's that sense of seeing evidence
of stuff that's not really working that

well in the medical system or seeing
what's possible to change around that too.

So I was fascinated about all that.

And as we were leading out of coming out
of osteopathy and working with that, I...

started to get a sense of, how can I
become a mentor in sort of moving and

breathing well so someone can go away from
the treatment room with a plan to not just

have physio exercises, but actually what
is it that would bring osteopathic

principles and holistic health principles
to a management plan, to a way in which

someone could go away and do it for
themselves as much as they can.

So I got into that.

I started to write down all my ideas
around that and created a, created, there

was a, my ex partner also developed an
autoimmune condition.

I, there was a lot of stress in her life
and she suddenly, she suddenly just had

this flare up that happened within a
matter of weeks.

And it then grew and grew and grew to the
point where she couldn't walk and her

whole hip and knee swelled up and she
couldn't work anymore.

And then she was bed bound and.

in chronic pain and inflammation all
around her body.

And it just went like this because she
started to rest.

She just actually started to stop and
rest.

And so that was fascinating from my
perspective to go, now I get to work out

how to do some work in how to look at all
those things that potentially help with

the self care, self management practices
to move, yoga.

and dance and but how do we modify that to
someone that has really strong feelings

about how they are or what them how
they're moving or when they move they've

got to move gently so it's like the
essence of qigong is to is to be gentle

and to let things flow but it wasn't that
wasn't it i was like there's something in

there to add and and add to so this

idea that exercise is often is exercise
has to be pushing pushing to the limits

and all this sort of stuff and and it's
like that can't be that can't be done for

someone that is the chronic pain, chronic
fatigue, chronic inflammation, all these

things that can come up for someone.

So how do how do we apply the essence of
the Qigong and the yoga to to a sense of a

movement practice?

and a breathing practice that also pushes
it a little bit, but not enough, not too

much.

So that's where I came up with something
called lymphatic health exercise.

And that was where I've mapped that all
out and started to use that for myself, my

own management also, how to modify it for
people that, you know, do get achy and

pains if they try to do exercise very
quickly.

So there's a, there's a space of...

getting moving in but how do we make it
fun and just turn it into what my what I

loved about dancing and you know dancing
so there's like the best of you taking

elements of what is already known what is
already known it was nothing new about it

it's just a case of how can we apply it to
a context of this modern world that is not

just you know Qigong is you know you throw
throw words out like that to someone that

doesn't understand it, it won't land as
such, but going, hey, it's, you know,

you've got a lymphatic system, you may
have heard of that and that helps you

drain your body.

There might be another way in.

So it was just a way of going, what is
already there?

What elements can we take and what we can
put together that makes it fun and play

around with it and have a go at it.

So that, that's that modality where I was
getting into mentorship and I was like,

maybe I could be a coach and around this.

and a mentor, but I had no idea about the
life coaching and the performance coaching

elements and all these other ways in which
you can coach as well.

And that's where I went down a rabbit hole
of all of that coming into the pandemic,

coming out of the pandemic.

So I developed the lymphatic health
exercise project through the pandemic

because it was an ideal space to go.

I would already started thinking about it
and it was somewhere to go.

Or if someone's isolated and can't get to
the gym and they only have their body.

What can we do to do it in limited space,
time, budget and capacity to exercise?

So, and also potentially feeling ill as
well with all the, you know, viruses

flying about and stuff.

So it was that idea around, it was, I
played around with that in the pandemic.

As we came out of that, I was like, okay,
let me just start, just learn to be a

coach as well.

I was set up as coaching business and
that's where I realised about all the

other coaching modalities and then went
through all of that as well.

So coaching, mental fitness training,
which is all about helping to defragment

the mind and also step into our human
powers that are not present when we feel

stressed or challenged.

So it's how do we apply and bring those to
the challenges.

So it's all about mental fitness rather
than the physical exercise fitness.

So there's mental fitness, coaching,
somatic coaching work, which kind of is in

between the physical and the mental and
the emotional, which helps as well.

I got coached in myself in order to be
able to start communicating better and

talking and talking my story and being
here without all that self judgment and

anxiety around it.

So.

As you can see, I'm not the same person I
was.

I could have been or I was a while ago
through these practices and being coached.

And finally, lead hardcore leadership
training was the was the final piece on

that, allowing me to step up and challenge
myself even further to go, what's

possible?

And this is what I believe is

where my comfort zone is around what I can
do.

So I was learning that and realising now I
could just get to do little incremental

pushes on that to expand and share this
message further.

So, and then finally, Genius Genesis
Mentorship is what I'm going through right

now, which is almost like taking all of
that and actually having a way to just put

it into practice.

going forwards.

So there's a lot, I said a lot there.

It's really to boil it down, I call it
mental fitness training.

I call it neuro creative.

We haven't even got into the idea around
neurodiversity as well.

And that's part of my story around not
knowing I was dyslexic until I was 33,

studying osteopathy.

That's a fantastic story, isn't it?

You've dragged yourself up by your
bootstraps and gone, hmm, I can't do this,

I'll try that.

So you've taught yourself to a place where
you're helping other people.

But describe your vision because it's
helping the person, all of them, isn't it?

It's the mental, the spiritual, the heart,
the emotion.

It's everything.

Describe your vision for...

how you work with people.

Yeah, thank you.

So the idea is, to put it simply, I like
to remind people that we are all creative

our own way.

People consider creativity as a space of
the output of what I've created.

And so, you know, we talk about being, I'm
not a creative person because I don't know

how to draw or I don't know how to do
this.

Whereas if we look at it from a point of
view of what thoughts we're having and

beliefs we have will create whatever
actions we take and whatever reality we'll

create going forward or how we react to
others or our environments or challenges.

All of that is an automatic pattern that's
been built up.

And so whether we're conscious of it or
unconscious or automatic of it, we are

creating that going forwards.

Everything that's been placed about us in
our rooms, our environments, our work that

we've chosen to do, even if you don't feel
like we have had much choice in that

matter, it's been...

I've got to do this because of this or
because of that.

It's still a sense of.

There is a choice underneath that.

And so when that when we realise we have
that choice, we are our choices are

creative.

We are creating our choices.

So within that, I like to just go, yes,
we're all creative.

In a sense, so someone can be creative
with how they plan their day if they don't

feel like they're creative as in.

get up and sing a song or whatever, but
they're much more feeling like they like

to do admin and, you know, do spreadsheets
and stuff like that.

That's still a creativity.

That's still what's what the output is of
the creativity process.

So whether you like planning or being
impulsive or any of that, that's that's

all preference for your creativity
processes.

So I like to call it neuro creativity
rather than neurodiversity as such.

because it's more of a being in action,
not just being a passive observer or a or

a responder, passive responder to the
environment.

To make it, to go off on tangents here,
but try to come back to the idea that we

can either be, I like to say we can either
be disrupting, disruptive creativity.

So that could be something like, this is
always happening to me.

and I'm going to respond in the same way
because I have to.

And potentially that's causing, you know,
sugar addiction or an alcohol addiction or

something.

And that could be a disruptive creative
process because it's reactive responding.

I feel bad.

I feel got a hangover and actually I'll
just have a drink and then I feel better

again.

But that's causing more health problems.

So, so, so there's a disruptive creative
process.

It can also be a...

an aimless creative process, which is I
don't know what to do today.

I'm a bit bored.

I'll watch Netflix or that I'll do this
and I'll do that.

And I just want to relax today and not not
feel stressed or go and do this and see

what this is like.

I've tried this dance class once and get
bored of it and go and do something else

and kind of just playing around with ideas
or doing things to to to feel all right

and good, but not necessarily.

having a vision or taking it somewhere.

So then they've got functional creativity.

Functional creativity is a sense of when
we're in creative flow.

So again, it's not necessarily whether I
can write a song in five minutes, but it's

a case of.

When I, when I am writing, if I'm writing,
if I suddenly feel like I'm writing a song

and it's going really well and I'm in flow
and I'm doing something that I know how to

do, that's creative flow.

If I know how to make a cup of tea really
well, the way I like it, and I just go and

do it and I'm doing it and I'm enjoying
it, that's creative flow.

So there's a potential functional
creativity process to whatever we do.

So whatever we practice and get good at is
that functional creativity.

it doesn't matter what we're doing as such
is.

there's that sense.

And then there's visionary creativity,
which is to either be comfortable or not

comfortable, but consciously moving
towards something that we really want to

be making or creating.

And that, that is a sense of neuro
creativity.

That's what I like to say is what, what we
can use our nervous systems for and use

our bodies for and use our minds and our
emotions for even if it's

I don't know how to do that, but I'm gonna
work towards it anyway, regardless of

whether I'm judging, whether I'm good at
it or not as I go along.

And that's the process that I really like
to help people with is those especially

challenged with not feeling like they've
fitted in to society, neurodiversity,

neurodivergence, neuro...

Yeah, all those.

elements to I didn't I didn't know that
the arm that aren't being in their sense

of flow anymore so creative creative
blocks for someone that that wants to get

back into it or is trying to get
everything through it daily that isn't

isn't getting into it may have a bad habit
instead I'm giving up

Right, I'm going to go and drink some
alcohol or drink alcohol whilst I'm being

creative or whatever it is and turn to
move towards this less space of disrun

disruptive into visionary because when we
have a vision for the world or a vision

for what we want to do and bring to the
world, then then then we'll move towards

it regardless.

So we get clear on that first then.

And that's what often we call leaders.

Leaders have vision.

doesn't matter whether they have a good
vision or a bad vision for the world, but

they have something that they have, they
have an agenda and they have a way to talk

about it in which inspires others to take
action.

And that could be for them, for, for, for
the ego, or it could be for the greater

good of everyone else.

And, and so that's what a leader, I
personally think of a leader is.

So we can all be leaders.

We don't have to be standing on stages to
be leader.

We can lead our lives in ways in which
shows how humans can evolve in a better

way with a bigger vision that inspires.

So, you know, a mother of three can be an
amazing leader that brings up their

children to want to be inspired by and to
others going forwards as well.

So that's why I call neuro -creative
leadership.

And that's where mental fitness training
in order to get there faster.

I love the whole idea of creativity.

I remember at school being laughed at for
drawing and my art suffered and I never

thought I was creative.

Yet I was a photographer for a long time.

I took lots of photographs.

I made people wealthy.

I helped businesses.

I did their marketing and stuff like that.

And I didn't think I was creative.

And this is going back to your school
right at the beginning.

I didn't fit into that mold of that
because I was something different.

But I didn't think I was creative yet.

I was taking photographs.

And then it's only been recently I've
realised that I am incredibly creative.

And I love your story about the different
types of creativity.

I think that just it's so liberating
because people don't think they're

creative because the art teacher said
that's rubbish or...

someone said that's rubbish and that just
crucifies you.

And yet we are so incredibly creative.

So that story around the different types
of creative I think is really uplifting,

really, really empowering for people,
especially those who are incredibly

creative but have Emotional Intelligence
or "Art Intelligence" or not just your bog

standard intelligence that helps you do
maths or English.

Yeah.

Thank you for sharing that.

And yeah, yeah, it's really nice to hear
that you've realised that yourself as

well.

Yeah, it was an interesting journey to get
there because, yeah, it was just, you

know, I'm not creative, I'm stuck, I can't
do this, I can't do that.

But little by little that, you know, like
you said, you start to do something and

somebody tells you something or in your
case, you're empowering people, you're

helping people and they go, well, I can't
draw a straight line, but I can write a

song, I can play music, I can...

I can dance, I can be creative with my
movement or with my writing or as a leader

or empower people and that's all
creativity and that's just magical.

Yeah, yeah, so that's, I do believe that's
the, that's the, that's the, that's one of

the ways in which we can tap into that is
to go, what do I want to create?

And what do I want to create today?

to go back a little bit to the idea of the
awakening.

I mean, how did you experience discomfort
and how were relationships work and things

like that?

How all those impacted as you were having
that dark night of the soul, as you were

realising that things weren't working for
you and you were beginning to have to

change the way that you showed up in the
world.

was only that point that, that, that week
that I said that I couldn't sleep so well,

I was still going to work.

I was still operating.

I was operating like,

a zombie that had self -awareness that I
was a zombie and that I was just felt like

a slave to whatever emotions were coming
up and they were constantly coming up and

I don't even know I don't even know
whether anyone could tell that's the

weirdest thing other than

eye was flickering, but even then I don't
know whether anyone could tell.

And that's what's really both interesting
and slightly scary.

That's what's potentially going on for so
many others as well.

That idea that it's like, I'm getting on
with it.

I've got to get on with it.

This is what I'm supposed to be doing.

so yeah, I'd be going to, I went to work.

I, it was only that moment after that week
or during that week where I was like, I'm

not sleeping.

I've got to tell someone.

I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't
consider or know what to do to, to ask for

help or tell anyone else other than my
mum.

at that point, which I'm so glad she was
there to do that.

However, leading up to all of that, I was
like,

In some ways I was able to sense this
thoughts and go, I just had that thought

that doesn't, that doesn't seem right at
all.

Or, or that I'm, or I'm just having a
feeling of, of like every choice that I'm

making now before every choice I was
making was getting validation of I'm

raising consciousness, raising awareness,
going to a place of.

everything's going to fall into place,
everything's going to be amazing, you

know, getting signs and signs from the
universe, synchronicities, things that

it's like, I just said that and that
happened, or this, you know, it's like,

wow, this is going to be amazing.

And then, then it all just flip, you know,
wasn't like just overnight, but it

somehow, somehow that, that event of being
rejected.

I guess I was having the same experiences,
but my perception of that was that now all

the things that were being validated, the
things that are showing up saying you're

on the right path or I'm on a path, here's
what you thought, this is what you get, or

all of that kind of coming to me.

was, no, I'm broken or it's not working or
I'm going down the wrong route.

So the events were still the same, but my
perception of what was going on meant that

I just was in fear of my life.

I was in fear of losing everything.

I was in fear of the...

people hated me.

That's one of the deepest, darkest ones
was that whole thing of fear of rejection

to the point of actual, not just, not
just, I don't want to know you, but as in,

I want to, you know, make sure that you
don't get back up again, you know, kind of

thing.

And that was, that was, that really showed
up for me.

So where's that come from?

Only now have I been able to explore that.

because I didn't want to, but I just
didn't know how to or that I was I didn't

have that reflection process in place or
the understandings that as we moved in as

human consciousness, we've all learning
about what coaching is, and what what what

it's good for what is important for or
general therapy, or specific therapies,

all of this has its place.

And I think it's only just kind of stuff
that we can talk about.

So back then it was something that we
could talk about.

I've felt kind of lucky that I went
through it early, earlier, rather than

maybe some people are going through it
now, you know?

So yeah, that's where I was.

I was just operating as best as I could.

And it was only up until I went, okay, I
can't.

do this anymore, I've got to disclose it.

That was when I had to sort of like take a
break and allow the healing.

You were existing and just rolling on day
by day by day.

And then suddenly it was like, now you
have to make some choices.

Now you have to change.

And that's when the fear comes in and
squashes you.

As you said, there's that rejection.

There's that fear.

I'm not good enough.

I'm broken, which are just words that we
keep ourselves small.

And then the universe was saying, you have
to change.

You have to step out of that.

As you said, there's choices.

The number of choices gets smaller and
smaller and smaller until you're down to

two choices, you know, change or adapt or
die simplistically.

But so it's uncomfortable, isn't it, to
get to that stage where it's you're

running out of choices, but you always
have to.

Definitely.

It's a great way you put that actually.

And I really appreciate again, this space
that you've created to be able to talk

about these things, because it's not just
what we experience individually, but also

how we create conversations to show that
it's normal and okay to talk about these

things and understand that potentially
there is a process

You've worked out a process to help people
through that.

I wasn't so lucky.

I was unhappy.

I was struggling.

I was, all my clients were useless.

They weren't paying me la la la la la la
la.

And I was drinking like a fish.

And I had to come down to that point.

I had to get to that rock bottom.

And then there were the two choices, you
know, I chose to get to rehab and to

change my life around.

and if, if we can help people see that
they are going down that path, whatever

that path is, not necessarily drinking
drugs, but whatever that path is, and

allow them a space to go, Hey, I'm
stumbling.

I'm falling.

I'm slipping.

and help them to, you know, give them a
hand and help them up.

they haven't got to hit that rock bottom.

They haven't got to get to that point
where some people don't make it.

And I think, you know, it's a really
important conversation.

It's really important to be able to say, I
need help, you know, please help me.

Like you did with your mum, like I did at
rehab.

And like, I'm assuming some of your
colleagues and your clients do as well.

They reach out to you because of how you
share your stories and things.

Well, yeah, that's a really good point.

So just to backtrack ever so slightly, I
didn't realise I was dyslexic when I was

33.

The results from school in my teens
validated some things and then taught me

to believe I was a certain way.

And then I was frustrated.

And then that frustration underneath
wasn't necessarily the breakup that was

the rejection piece.

It was just waiting to...

to bring up all of that at some point
anyway, that's what I feel anyway.

So it was not necessarily the specific
situation, it's what's underlying.

And so not knowing how to, or feeling that
I knew how to communicate in a certain way

wasn't realised until it was like, yeah, I
get to learn a masters in osteopathy.

and insist on the test, the actual test, I
had the mild, I had the small test, and I

come up as mild.

And they said, don't, don't, you know,
don't worry about it, because someone

that's neurotypical on a tired day can
come up as mild.

So you know, we don't want to spend that
extra money on or do that test as such.

That wasn't what they said.

But they said, you know, we don't want to

necessarily do that test because it's not
significant enough.

You don't think you need the diagnosis.

And I was like, I really, really do.

I really do want to do the test.

I had to insist twice.

Then when I did, I came up as dyslexic and
it's because typically in the past

dyslexia is really apparent.

Before it was very apparent around a
particular way in which someone processes

or, or

Or, or, and as I don't like the word
dysfunction as such around these ideas,

because it's, it's, it starts to get into
a place of, well, this is the way

something should be.

Therefore, if you're not doing it that
way, then, then, then that's classed as

wrong.

Again, it's the same as like, you know,
studying a subject and then going, well,

there's someone else that can show that
they can do that subject in that

particular way.

and show their knowledge in a way in which
is all what is perceived as intelligent by

speaking it.

Because they practiced that and they know
how to do that.

Whereas I hadn't practiced speaking or
thinking in that way.

I've been, what I've realised now is that
I've had a much more intuitive way of

feeling into things and I feel what
something will be like.

And I can feel, I feel an idea.

I can feel into what an idea is like, not
how I can put it into words, which meant

that I could understand high level
concepts of stuff, but frustrated that I

couldn't explain I knew anything about it.

It was just so frustrating to sit in
conversation and hear people talking about

stuff and going, yep, yep, yep, I
understand that.

Or some...

expert talking about something and going
well that makes total sense and I can see

how if you do that with this thing you
could do it with that thing and create

that thing just as easily and but not
knowing how to describe it so so so with

that sense I'm much more into the idea
that you know neurodiverse people or

neurodivergent people have felt like a
certain way and they

fighting against that, like they can be,
they can be who they want.

They're just sensitive in different ways.

And so that's what I'm interested in is
I'm not saying that I can help all

neurodiverse people as such.

It's just a case of whoever resonates with
what I, what I can do is I'm much more

interested in helping those that where,
where the, where they've, they're going

through or gone through similar pathways
to the way I've gone through.

So it's being hypersensitive, scattered,
scattered thoughts or focus.

great ideas but unable to explain them.

But potentially being perfectionist about
it, not wanting to be criticized or judged

around it until it's something that is
worthwhile doing.

When you get to that point, it's always
the next thing that could be better.

And so it's like actually...

It doesn't have to be about actually just
releasing something perfect or releasing

it.

It's just a case of actually getting on
with it and feeling satisfied.

What is satisfaction and what is success
look like from not from anywhere else, but

from just in here and then working on
that.

So, so I help what I call heart centered
creative professionals, because maybe

there's a lot within that.

It's before I was talking about
neurodivergence as such, but.

that can sometimes be a bit of a trap to
go down because it's too specific or what

some may not know that they are
neurodivergent or some people may know.

And actually I feel like it's really about
sensing the world and feeling into it.

Some people are much more rational up here
and can think in language and process in

language or some people can visualise
really well.

I'm not really visualising that much.

I can picture things I've already seen,
but not things that I've already, that

I've not seen so well.

So, whereas you can tell that other
artists can just dream up a picture in

their mind and then draw it.

That's why it looks so amazing.

It's like, how do you, I was like, like,
don't know how someone can do that because

I don't visualise it.

I can sense into it.

I can feel into it.

But then that's great because I can sense,
you know, things that other people can't

sense.

So, so.

It's the case of we can all work together
in some way to, to come up with ideas from

our own ways in which we perceive and feel
into things or see into things or think

into things.

So my picture is heart -centered created
because a heart is about sensing and

feeling as such feeling into it, but not
necessarily confined to that as well.

So, so, so heart -centered created
professionals who are struggling with

scattered focus or choosing what they
really want to create and that are

potentially struggling with perfectionism
to actually get what they want out in the

world whether it's for themselves or as a
side project or as a next level career

change and really the ideal person is

is that person that wants to get out of
what they want.

What they want to step into, you know,
from working potentially in a space of,

I'm doing this over and over again, I feel
like I'm doing it because I should be

doing it.

It could be working for someone else or it
could be just, you know, left to your own

devices.

It can be, again, something that means
that we don't.

release that project or release that thing
just for the self or for a business.

So that's the idea.

And how to lead training to mental fitness
and training into how to lead that

process.

Pick a project to work on and just work on
something simple to start with.

Work on something simple over 12 weeks
just to create a project that means

something that isn't just a case of get
back into creativity process but...

creative process with that vision
recreativity mind, what is important to

hear and what could make the world, not
necessarily a better place, but inspire,

inspire the world with that project
through a sense of the creativity process

and then committing to it and making it
happen.

I love that Rory.

I think that's fantastic because you're
encouraging people to be creative and

curious and you have to be curious.

And it's vision, not belief as well, isn't
it?

It's not belief in right or wrong.

It's a vision that I can improve, I can
change and my ideas might be able to be

expanded on.

So it's a...

positive mindset and it's growth, but it's
curious.

And I think curiosity is so important and
it does mean you've got to be vulnerable.

You've got to say, hmm, that didn't work.

And if you're working with perfectionists,
I guess that's tough for them.

Yeah.

Yeah, as the perfectionists in the world
get things done in outstanding ways to the

sense of the even when we get there, we're
already criticizing, it's like fear of

criticism, but it's actually already
criticizing inside, isn't it?

So that sense of, can I just put it out
there the best I can?

is one thing, but also how does it
represent something that I can, the ego

can let go of as well to allow it to not
be criticising, to get out of their own

ways, just go I'm going to create this for
a reason and the reason is bigger than my

inner critic or the criticism that I could
make up or that someone else could say.

I think that's the key to it, is to
actually make it something so inspiring

that it really doesn't matter.

In itself.

I think you've nailed it.

It doesn't matter in itself is the one,
isn't it?

I mean, plenty of writers and artists have
said, do it for yourself.

Don't do it with an expectation.

I mean, we all know expectations are
disastrous.

That's stacking up resentments.

I think you're spot on.

We can create, and if we're going to do it
with, I want it to be a success, I want it

this, if we put limitations on it,

it may well get limited, but if we're
gonna be broad minded enough to say,

right, I'm creating something and off it
goes, I've done the best I can, and that's

gonna be good enough.

I think that's where the magic happens.

Yeah, definitely.

Where can people find you?

Where can we find you on social media and
things?

yeah, so I'm, I go by the name of Rory
Lemon Aid, AID to health, as all one word.

So I, I, that's where I, it can be found
on many of the social media platforms and

also my lemonaid .xyz website.

Cool, thank you.

And one last question.

What do you think has been the most
transformative gift that you have received

in your awakening?

It's a wonderful question.

And I think, I think it's a sense of.

The two words that come up for me is
appreciation.

because when I've now been able to
appreciate where I've come from and where

I want to go and how I want to appreciate
or what I want things to appreciate and I

like that appreciation because it's kind
of like this kind of growth element to it

an idea around if someone appreciates it
then and that's great or but I get to

appreciate it too and

And it's a sense of gratitude comes from
that.

It's like a core piece.

And it stems from that whole thing of what
else is possible.

That's the curiosity of what else is
possible.

If that happened and I can now learn and
grow from it, I'm able to appreciate it.

What else becomes possible through
appreciation.

Brilliant, thank you ever so much.

Well, it's been super having you on the
podcast.

Thank you ever so much.

And yeah, I will let you know when we go
live, so thank you.

Thank you, Hamish, for everything you're
doing with this.

Because again, like I mentioned at the
start, it's so important to have these

conversations.

And it just goes to show that it all
brings about when people hear it, when we

listen to these things and we associate
where we've been and where we've come

from, it really makes a big difference to
what is possible with the human race going

forwards.

as human consciousness is evolving.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Brilliant.

Thank you very so much.

Thank you for listening to this episode of
The Crucible, Conversations for the

Curious.

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transformation resonated with you, be sure

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